Time Travel - The Bear and Badger

Dinostar77

Time is a human construct that is accepted by 99% of all human cultures. Though there are a few remote tribes who see past, present and future as one in the same therefore their lexicon has developed without past and future tenses. If i can find the link again i will post it. Was a fascinating read.

Minkymu

Brian cox does a lovely demo of how we all experience time difference even in the same room. Look it up on youtube.

bad_hair_day

Brian Cant has entered the chat

Roujin

Is Bill Murray actually time travelling though in Groundhog Day?

He certainly doesn't travel back to the same timeline every day, because he would see the version of himself that was already there, and also he has some form of immortality, when he dies, he wakes up again at the start of the day.

I put it to you that the consciousness of Bill Murray is actually moving between parallel dimensions whenever he enters an unconscious state. What is the cause of this anomoly? How the fuck should I know, do I look like Patrick Stewart going through my adevntures in the later seasons of TNG? What I do know is that there is a clear pattern of rules that govern when his consciousness moves into another parallel dimension, which implies an element of artificial interference in the space/time continuum which he experiences locally when he dies or goes to sleep.

We can possibly extrapolate a bit futher based on our own societal understandings of what happens to Bill Murray's character. There is a condition which has to be met, in order for his life to return to normal, and on top of that, although he is free to roam within a given area of space time, he is trapped there, in essence, his freedom is being withheld until a particular criteria has been met.

I conclude with my theory: Bill Murray in Groundhog Day, will go on to commit some kind of galactic level crime at some point after February 2nd 1993. A crime for which he is clearly caught and brought to justice for, but a crime so grievous in scale, that he is sentenced to a period of indefinite imprisonment to reform his character until such time as he no longer carries out the atrocity in the future.

RamSteelwood

Nah. He's just stuck on a level in a videogame. to beat this level, you must bang McDowell before 6am.
Infinite lives, no mid level saves.

monkey

Roujin wrote:

Is Bill Murray actually time travelling though in Groundhog Day? He certainly doesn't travel back to the same timeline every day, because he would see the version of himself that was already there, and also he has some form of immortality, when he dies, he wakes up again at the start of the day. I put it to you that the consciousness of Bill Murray is actually moving between parallel dimensions whenever he enters an unconscious state. What is the cause of this anomoly? How the fuck should I know, do I look like Patrick Stewart going through my adevntures in the later seasons of TNG? What I do know is that there is a clear pattern of rules that govern when his consciousness moves into another parallel dimension, which implies an element of artificial interference in the space/time continuum which he experiences locally when he dies or goes to sleep. We can possibly extrapolate a bit futher based on our own societal understandings of what happens to Bill Murray's character. There is a condition which has to be met, in order for his life to return to normal, and on top of that, although he is free to roam within a given area of space time, he is trapped there, in essence, his freedom is being withheld until a particular criteria has been met. I conclude with my theory: Bill Murray in Groundhog Day, will go on to commit some kind of galactic level crime at some point after February 2nd 1993. A crime for which he is clearly caught and brought to justice for, but a crime so grievous in scale, that he is sentenced to a period of indefinite imprisonment to reform his character until such time as he no longer carries out the atrocity in the future.

He's going back into his old body with his new consciousness. Like Quantum Leap.
Quantum Leap spoilers - It was revealed in the final episode that Sam Beckett had been leaping himself around the whole time, and therefore unknowingly deciding himself when his job was done at the end of each episode. So maybe Murray is his own captor and knows when he's made enough progress to leave the loop.

Time_on_my_hands

Quantum Leap is an interesting concept of cause and effect in itself - Sam is time-travelling not to make changes but to keep the status-quo of his own timeline's future.

edit: I guess it implies that in QL all time is happening simultaneously as one large structure rather than a linear progression.

Escape

Roujin wrote:

do I look like Patrick Stewart going through my adevntures in the later seasons of TNG?

Only if it's in flashback with the toupee.

Time_on_my_hands wrote:

Quantum Leap is an interesting concept

I think Darkplace is the most significant televisual event since.

tigersgogrrr

Where is Dean Learner when you need him?

Time_on_my_hands

Okay. So with Quantum Leap - where does it all begin re cause and effect?

Taking the Al episode as an example (where Sam leaps into Al and has to save him)...

1. Al is a pivotal person in setting up the Quantum Leap project as we know it up to this episode, however if Sam was responsible for saving his life via that project, is this not a paradox?
2. Did the whole universe instantly change the moment Sam made that first leap? It seems that he is simultaneously at all points in history that he leaps to, causing an immediate ripple effect in 4D spacetime (hence the constantly changing probabilities being calculated).
3. Therefore, was the Quantum Leap project actually developed in partnership with the English guy who replaces Al in that one episode, but as soon as Sam leaps, it's inevitable that Al will be saved and so history and his memory changes.

Alternative theory:

Is Sam actually leaping to work against a malign influence seeking to corrupt history? Is there another unseen leaper working as an antagonist and Sam gas to fix things? So re saving Al, Al was always supposed to live, but another time traveller attempted to change history by having him killed and that's why Sam leaps into him.

Yossarian

I’m skipping past this because I’ve not seen the end of Quantum Leap. Still hoping it shows up on Netflix at some point, I’d watch the shit out of it.

tin_robot

Time_on_my_hands wrote:

Okay. So with Quantum Leap - where does it all begin re cause and effect? Taking the Al episode as an example (where Sam leaps into Al and has to save him)... 1. Al is a pivotal person in setting up the Quantum Leap project as we know it up to this episode, however if Sam was responsible for saving his life via that project, is this not a paradox? 2. Did the whole universe instantly change the moment Sam made that first leap? It seems that he is simultaneously at all points in history that he leaps to, causing an immediate ripple effect in 4D spacetime (hence the constantly changing probabilities being calculated). 3. Therefore, was the Quantum Leap project actually developed in partnership with the English guy who replaces Al in that one episode, but as soon as Sam leaps, it's inevitable that Al will be saved and so history and his memory changes. Alternative theory: Is Sam actually leaping to work against a malign influence seeking to corrupt history? Is there another unseen leaper working as an antagonist and Sam gas to fix things? So re saving Al, Al was always supposed to live, but another time traveller attempted to change history by having him killed and that's why Sam leaps into him.

Answer that Yoss must not read...

Spoiler:

Questor

Ignore this too Yoss:

Spoiler:

monkey

Time_on_my_hands wrote:

Okay. So with Quantum Leap - where does it all begin re cause and effect? Taking the Al episode as an example (where Sam leaps into Al and has to save him)... 1. Al is a pivotal person in setting up the Quantum Leap project as we know it up to this episode, however if Sam was responsible for saving his life via that project, is this not a paradox? 2. Did the whole universe instantly change the moment Sam made that first leap? It seems that he is simultaneously at all points in history that he leaps to, causing an immediate ripple effect in 4D spacetime (hence the constantly changing probabilities being calculated). 3. Therefore, was the Quantum Leap project actually developed in partnership with the English guy who replaces Al in that one episode, but as soon as Sam leaps, it's inevitable that Al will be saved and so history and his memory changes. Alternative theory: Is Sam actually leaping to work against a malign influence seeking to corrupt history? Is there another unseen leaper working as an antagonist and Sam gas to fix things? So re saving Al, Al was always supposed to live, but another time traveller attempted to change history by having him killed and that's why Sam leaps into him.

Spoiler:

Going to spoiler this despite the show ending 27 years ago. (Edit: Actually just quoted it, and now trying to spoiler after the fact which will probably fuck the formatting).
None of it properly makes sense. It's pretty light on all that sort of theoretical causality stuff. There's an original history that happened before Sam started leaping. Then, a few lives at a time, he starts improving history for the better. But there's inconsistencies with how this works. Usually explained by 'swiss cheesing' where Sam's mind melds with the person he's leapt into. It's why he might know where to go in a town he's never been to before etc. There's a JFK themed episode where he leaps into Lee Harvey Oswald at certain points in his life. Right at the end he leaps into a security guard who saves Jackie Kennedy's life. In the 'original history' apparently she died too and Sam was there to save her. But neither Sam nor Al remember this original history, only the changed one. Ziggy, the computer, thinks she died in the original history though. Most of the other times on the show, Al, Ziggy and Sam all know what went wrong originally and what he's there to put right.
In the final episode, when he's worked out he can leap around without inhabiting anyone else, he goes to see Al's first wife. She thinks he's dead (he's actually in a POW camp) and remarries. Same tells her he isn't and he's coming home. So she never remarries. Al, who throughout the series alludes to his multiple marriages and frequent womanising, stays married to her. So the series, as presented, never actually happens. So if Sam can't remember Al having multiple marriages, why would he go back? It doesn't really work when you pick it apart.
There are a few 'evil leaper' episodes. Never properly explained other than a mirror image of the QL project. She's a woman, she has to do bad stuff, she has an evil holographic accomplice who materialises from a hell-scape doorway instead of Al's white light doorway etc It's heavily implied that God is doing something. And the evil leaper is being leaped around by the Devil. Sam meets another leaper in the final episode who the other people in the town don't see but one bloke remembers as someone who has been dead for years. Leading Sam to think that leapers are 'angels'.
Sorry that all comes across like you've never seen it which you clearly have.

Spoiler:

monkey

I did love QL way back when, but it's a little too interested in the minute social history of the US. I always liked the future bits and the time travel aspects which they only delved into now and again.

RamSteelwood

i loved QL back in the day, but i don't seem to recall any of what you're all talking about in the final series/episode...so i'm starting to wonder if i missed it. I do recall it made the news when it was announced it was being cancelled as some fans protested at the studio and it's the first i'd ever heard of anything like that happening.

monkey

I don't think I even knew it was the final one when I was watching it until right at the end when it became obvious.

Dinostar77

Yossarian wrote:

I’m skipping past this because I’ve not seen the end of Quantum Leap. Still hoping it shows up on Netflix at some point, I’d watch the shit out of it.

Just dont watch the last episode. Ever.

monkey

Last eps great whatchoo on about.

nick_md

Sliders is the real champ lads.

Time_on_my_hands

Re Monkey and Tin's spoilers - I honestly had no idea about that. I thought I'd watched that show until the end.

Dinostar77

monkey wrote:

Last eps great whatchoo on about.

Spoiler:

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