Digital Detox/Dumbdown - The Bear and Badger

drumbeg

poprock wrote:

I find it interesting that SG, as our little forum’s biggest cheerleader for machine learning and data crunching, is also the person speaking out against devices that do that for us in our personal lives. Is that partly ‘I’ve seen behind the curtain and it’s scary’? Or is it just difficult to reconcile the societal with the personal?

It's not so strange. Take a look at what the Silicon Valley tech-bros do with their kids. They ain't giving them smartphone access that's for sure.

g.man

Cheap bastards!

davyK

AI is not the problem.

Data is.

Always has been. Always will be. The entire technology stack is all about data:- capturing it, manipulating it , giving access to it.

It's been said that data is the new oil. It's not far off the mark.

The rule is, if it's free online then they are getting data about you.

If it isn't free, they still are but at least they will be stating how it's used.

LivDiv

ENDLESS TRAAAAASH
Apparently this negative review is causing a right fuss, I thought he was generous. Absolute heap of shit for only $700 plus $24 per month sub.

MyNameIsKrisG

I hesitate to say this is a digital detox exactly, but since this secondary phone arrived, I've been using it exclusively as a glorified iPod - all apps blocked except music.

It's been very effective at keeping me from my actual phone. Traditionally, I'd pick that up to select a song, and ten minutes later still be staring at it.

drumbeg

After almost a week with the iPhone in "Assistive Access" mode, it's been a good exercise, but has its caveats. It doesn't seem to keep track of missed calls properly and is missing call history completely. That's a little extreme for my tastes. Also, I can only message people that are in a defined list that I have to set up. Bit of a faff. The Met Office app ALWAYS starts upside down and then slowly flips, which is kind of hilarious. Still, it gives me a good idea of what I need, what I want and what I can ditch. I think my smartphone screen time over the last few days has been maybe 5-10 minutes per day. I do a lot of my messaging on the laptop whilst working though. When out and about I don't look at the screen at all, since there's no point. I'm surprised at how easy this feels, given that previously I'd tend to look at my phone sometimes when walking about.

I realised that one of the 4G Nokia flip jobbies would be good for me, since I still have the option of WhatsApp, but alas, they seem sold out everywhere - maybe this trend is bigger than I thought?

drumbeg

2 weeks since my OP and I'm still feeling out what works for me. I've picked up a burner phone and a cheap SIM and set up call forwarding from my iPhone to the burner. I can be contacted via a call when out and that's it. I only pick up messages and use the Internet when at home - generally 9-5 when working.

https://www.hmd.com/en_int/nokia-105-4g

The new phone is suitably crap, small, light and unobtrusive.

poprock

And they’ve actually made it.

https://www.heineken.com/global/en/theboringphone

Wookienopants

poprock wrote:

And they’ve actually made it.

https://www.heineken.com/global/en/theboringphone

I want that. I've registered

Kow

As long as you don't have to drink Heineken.

davyK

Bring back the feature phone. Simples.

Wouldn't work now though - the world has moved on. Support for the messenger apps , music service, camera, maps. Suits me Sir.

Wookienopants

I'd like a simple dumb flip phone that still has Spotify and audible. The only things I'd miss

MyNameIsKrisG

Wookienopants wrote:

I'd like a simple dumb flip phone that still has Spotify and audible. The only things I'd miss

I've been considering getting one of the 4G Nokias, but holding onto the smartphone to use in airplane mode, much like an iPod touch.

drumbeg

I think the KaiOS based Nokia phones come with a PodCast app loaded (and WhatsApp), but the lack of Spotify/Apple Music/Other is an issue. Looking at the dumbphones reddit, loads of people seem to move from the all encompassing smartphone to a dumbphone with separate music player - an iPod for example. Not ideal. At the moment I still use the iPhone for podcasts at night and that's really the most use it's getting.

I can definitely make peace with using a dedicated camera again, although it's a bit of added expense, weight and quite a bit more work. I do miss using my old SLR/Compact for photos though. The feel of a decent camera in the hand can't be replicated with a smartphone.

Wookienopants

I would love to have an old school iPod that can stream music from Spotify or audio books from audible

Diluted Dante

I'm pretty sure you could flash the firmware of an Android phone and set it up to be exactly that.

drumbeg

No Spotify, but in theory the Lightphone covers off Podcasts and Music whilst not really offering much else.

https://www.thelightphone.com/

Not to my tastes as a bit expensive and has very mixed reviews.

davyK

I have the last ipod with the large hard drive in it. Think its 130gb? Have to use iTunes to synch it. I rip cds onto it but unlikely I can get prime music content onto it without dodgy software.

poprock

I have to be honest, I don’t get it.

If you don’t want to use stuff, just don’t use it. Why do you need your hardware to force you?

Minnesänger

I mean that goes for anything, right? "If you don't wanna do X, why don't you just not do X?"

People form habits. Some people struggle with distraction. For some people, stopping is as simple as stopping, and others need to change setups to break habits.

It's not something I find myself wanting or needing to do, but I can understand the appeal of hardware that takes the choice / temptation / automatic pickup away.

Kow

It's like being on a diet but having the fridge full of cake and saying well, just don't eat it. It's kind of easier if it's not there.

drumbeg

I have to be honest, I don’t get it. If you don’t want to use stuff, just don’t use it. Why do you need your hardware to force you?

I mean that goes for anything, right? "If you don't wanna do X, why don't you just not do X?" People form habits. Some people struggle with distraction. For some people, stopping is as simple as stopping, and others need to change setups to break habits. It's not something I find myself wanting or needing to do, but I can understand the appeal of hardware that takes the choice / temptation / automatic pickup away.

Yeah. Nailed it well.

Last week I met up with a mate and his 14 year old son I hadn't seen since he was a toddler (they live in France). The kid was glued to his phone the whole time. Not present. I've seen it with my niece. I see it with kids at school. It's tragic. For me, it's partly about setting some kind of example to my own kids - "You don't need this shit to function". Perhaps this would be well suited to another thread, but love some of Jimmy Carr's points here about young people and digital lives (I substitute video games for smartphones/social media when he makes his point).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8mlrSIMhD8

To get other opinions on why, this Reddit sub is good.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dumbphones/

davyK

Too much of anything etc.

I remember being in a pub with the inlaws over from England. Wifey and I looked at the 3 of them, father,mother,son all sitting glued to phones. What was the fucking point of going out?

MyNameIsKrisG

poprock wrote:

I have to be honest, I don’t get it. If you don’t want to use stuff, just don’t use it. Why do you need your hardware to force you?

God I wish I was you.

drumbeg

davyK wrote:

Too much of anything etc. I remember being in a pub with the inlaws over from England. Wifey and I looked at the 3 of them, father,mother,son all sitting glued to phones. What was the fucking point of going out?

We went out for Christmas dinner last year as a family (me, wife and 2 kids). Phones out of sight.

A couple and their child were on a table next to us. Both parents sat scrolling. The kid has a tablet. They were like that the whole meal.

Then on leaving, the Dad asked the manager "Can we book again for next year?". Fucking MENTAL.

Kow

I always bring sprog's tablet when we go out for food or a drink. He's only 6 so he's easily bored and there's nothing for him to do in that situation so the tablet keeps him happy and entertained. I'm sure others would look and think oh my god that's terrible but really what should we do? It's not like he can participate in the conversation very much.

MyNameIsKrisG

Kow wrote:

I always bring sprog's tablet when we go out for food or a drink. He's only 6 so he's easily bored and there's nothing for him to do in that situation so the tablet keeps him happy and entertained. I'm sure others would look and think oh my god that's terrible but really what should we do? It's not like he can participate in the conversation very much.

Apologies in advance for being a smug twat. When our kids were 6 we took drawing pads and crayons to those places. A lot of those places also had their own activity packs. Our kids are now 13-14 and just as addicted to their phones as any other kids, but when we take them out for food, they know there are no gadgets at the table.

drumbeg

Kow wrote:

I always bring sprog's tablet when we go out for food or a drink. He's only 6 so he's easily bored and there's nothing for him to do in that situation so the tablet keeps him happy and entertained. I'm sure others would look and think oh my god that's terrible but really what should we do? It's not like he can participate in the conversation very much.

We had a phase when our eldest was little where we took a tablet on holiday with us. It helped us enormously at mealtimes and meant we could have a proper conversation for a bit. It's much easier in that setting as they get a bit older. At the mo they love a game of Uno if we go out for food.

My point about the Christmas dinner though was more about the family as a whole completely ignoring one another and then rating the experience so highly that they immediately wanted to do it again!

davyK

drumbeg wrote:

davyK wrote:

Too much of anything etc. I remember being in a pub with the inlaws over from England. Wifey and I looked at the 3 of them, father,mother,son all sitting glued to phones. What was the fucking point of going out?

We went out for Christmas dinner last year as a family (me, wife and 2 kids). Phones out of sight. A couple and their child were on a table next to us. Both parents sat scrolling. The kid has a tablet. They were like that the whole meal. Then on leaving, the Dad asked the manager "Can we book again for next year?". Fucking MENTAL.

We have a no phones rule at mealtimes even at home (yeah - we still sit down at the dinner table).

poprock

Do restaurants still do colouring in sheets for kids? That was definitely the done thing pre-smartphones.

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