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Minnesänger

So anyway, I'm playing Resi 7 now and I don't like it very much.

[Deleted User]

Don’t play it, then. Life’s too long and shit as it is.

Minnesänger

Andy wrote:

Don’t play it, then.

Aye. I'm gonna try and get through this section and if it doesn't pick up I'm gonna ditch it.

Blocks100

Djornson wrote:

Hunk sums it up well: Dark Souls is to rpg's what Halo was to fps. Genre redefined.

Balderdash to the pair of you's! Halo greatly influenced every other FPS that came after it by introducing the two gun only rule, recharging shields, and open worldy levels. Where can Dark Souls influence be found? No other RPG sought to imitate its maddeningly punishing combat system or bonfire mechanics. Why? Because every other RPG knew those were awful features not worthy of replicating.

LivDiv

Someone didn't get good.

JonB

Yeah, it's not like there are terms such as Souls-like doing the rounds these days.

Djornson

Blocks100 wrote:

Halo greatly influenced every other FPS that came after it by introducing the two gun only rule, recharging shields, and open worldy levels. Where can Dark Souls influence be found?

True, when you look at it like that. I don't actually play enough games to answer the question because if they aren't souls, i ain't playing. I struggle to get the same sense of satisfaction from the gameplay and sense of wonder from the world.

Mikemsp

Dark souls would be to RPG’s what halo was to FPS games, if people weren’t shit.

Moot_Geeza

I tried to play Resi 7 and didn't like it very much either. Not a series I've had much success with really, I've seen the credits on three of them.

mrsmr2

The credits on 7 are really good.

Moot_Geeza

Genuine lol

hunk

Blocks100 wrote:

Hunk sums it up well: Dark Souls is to rpg's what Halo was to fps. Genre redefined.

Balderdash to the pair of you's! Halo greatly influenced every other FPS that came after it by introducing the two gun only rule, recharging shields, and open worldy levels. Where can Dark Souls influence be found? No other RPG sought to imitate its maddeningly punishing combat system or bonfire mechanics. Why? Because every other RPG knew those were awful features not worthy of replicating.

https://www.pcgamer.com/the-best-souls-like-games-on-pc/

There you go.
Hollow Knight is also worth a mention.
You're wrong about Dark Souls mechanics. They are fundamental to the Souls experience.
A bit like legendary in Halo.

hylian_elf

Most of those aren’t RPGs though. Such as Hollow Knight which you mention.

Souls has had an impact on RPGs, but not quite like Halo did on FPSes. Most FPSes felt shit after Halo. What Whereas most RPGs are still fine after Souls.

Yossarian

JonB wrote:

Yeah, it's not like there are terms such as Souls-like doing the rounds these days.

Surely that suggests that it spawned a sub-genre rather than it changed a genre? Nobody was talking about Halo-likes after Halo, but practically every post-Halo FPS ripped off bits of the Halo formula.

Djornson

hylian_elf wrote:

What Whereas most RPGs are still fine after Souls.

Disagree.

Djornson

Yossarian wrote:

JonB wrote:

Yeah, it's not like there are terms such as Souls-like doing the rounds these days.

Surely that suggests that it spawned a sub-genre rather than it changed a genre? Nobody was talking about Halo-likes after Halo, but practically every post-Halo FPS ripped off bits of the Halo formula.

True. Maybe it was a bad comparison after all. Souls is fucking amazing though, alright?

i can't even remember where this convo started.

JonB

Yossarian wrote:

Yeah, it's not like there are terms such as Souls-like doing the rounds these days.

Surely that suggests that it spawned a sub-genre rather than it changed a genre? Nobody was talking about Halo-likes after Halo, but practically every post-Halo FPS ripped off bits of the Halo formula.

The example I gave doesn't exclude the other kind of influence. There are plenty more examples of games using bits of Souls as inspiration or using specfic ideas and mechanics. It is less genre-specific than Halo's influence though.

Minnesänger

Yar, Souls has had a massive influence on modern games. The specific influences can be a little looser and harder to nail down than something like Halo or GTA 3, but there's a bucket load of games around nowadays that crib at least a little from From's classic.

hunk

Agreed. Souls itself is a genre hybrid. Action adventure RPG if you must label it. Hollow knight may not be an RPG but it is definitely action adventure. Fused with some crazy metroid/Megaman/castlevania platforming.

Souls is best known for its RPG mechanics but it's also a beat 'm up set in a meticulously rendered 3d world steeped in ancient lore. Hence why so many genres get away cribbing elements of souls like design. With varying levels of success.

Minnesänger

Yar. Even outside of those genres though there’s deffo cribbing of specific mechanics e.g death and loss / recalculation and reward.

Blocks100

'Souls-like' just means any game that is also stupidly difficult. DS itself has no legacy.

[Deleted User]

I’m not even comfortable with the assertion that the Souls games are RPGs.

Unlikely

Just started Limbo. Didn't know anything about it other than it was a monochrome 2D scroller about a lost child. I have just encountered a

Spoiler:

and the tone is a little darker than I was expecting.

Minnesänger

Andy wrote:

I’m not even comfortable with the assertion that the Souls games are RPGs.

RPGs are deffo the hardest genre to nail down. Is it dialogue choices? Stories? Stat building? Level ups? Gear collection? Combat system?

There’s been numerous games stuck into the RPG genre that I’ve not thought of as RPGs at all - monster hunter world being the most recent. But I’d struggle to build a clear definition myself.

Blocks100 wrote:

'Souls-like' just means any game that is also stupidly difficult. DS itself has no legacy.

I think it’s reductive to define Souls games purely by difficulty. The death mechanics of Souls have found their way into Nier: Automata (not hard) and Titan Souls (hard, but built effectively as a puzzle game), while the world and story telling (and stat building elements) have been ripped wholesale by numerous 2D outings such as Salt and Sanctuary. Meanwhile, the more considered and slower 3rd person combat mechanics have found their way into other games (God of War, most recently, which used to be a Devil May Cry style character action game, and isn’t particularly hard either).

Dislike Dark Souls by all means, but it absolutely has a huge effect on a lot of modern games.

Unlikely

Spoiler:

I was looking for a way to relax after a stressful morning. This isn't it.

Unlikely

And now I've just inadvertently

Spoiler:

which was nice of me.

Minnesänger

You’re doing great. Keep it up!

digi

Minnesänger wrote:

Andy wrote:

I’m not even comfortable with the assertion that the Souls games are RPGs.

RPGs are deffo the hardest genre to nail down. Is it dialogue choices? Stories? Stat building? Level ups? Gear collection? Combat system?

There’s been numerous games stuck into the RPG genre that I’ve not thought of as RPGs at all - monster hunter world being the most recent. But I’d struggle to build a clear definition myself.

Blocks100 wrote:

'Souls-like' just means any game that is also stupidly difficult. DS itself has no legacy.

I think it’s reductive to define Souls games purely by difficulty. The death mechanics of Souls have found their way into Nier: Automata (not hard) and Titan Souls (hard, but built effectively as a puzzle game), while the world and story telling (and stat building elements) have been ripped wholesale by numerous 2D outings such as Salt and Sanctuary. Meanwhile, the more considered and slower 3rd person combat mechanics have found their way into other games (God of War, most recently, which used to be a Devil May Cry style character action game, and isn’t particularly hard either).

Dislike Dark Souls by all means, but it absolutely has a huge effect on a lot of modern games.

Rpg itself implys playing the role of a character wich is exactly the choice you make at the beginning when you decide if your a warrior, mage etc.

[Deleted User]

Minnesänger wrote:

But I’d struggle to build a clear definition myself.

You’ve done better than me, in that you’ve at least been able to start describing why it’s difficult to pin-down.

Like you, I have a bit of a problem with just using ‘Souls-like’ as a synonym for ‘hard’. I’ve also seen people do the same with ‘Rogue-like’ and ‘Rogue-like-like’. It just strikes me as applying personal preferences (or, more to the point, dislikes) to a (sub-)genre. I could just as easily do it with vertical shmups or... well, just games.

Unlikely

Minnesänger wrote:

You’re doing great. Keep it up!

Took a break at the point

Spoiler:

Need to do something less stressful like attempt to entertain an extremely grumpy three-year-old.

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