ALL GAMES SHOULD BE DARK SOULS
  • Dark Soldier
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    Hulka T wrote:
    Is it worth getting Dark Souls? I played the demo on the PS3 and didnt think it was all that, am I issing something? Which one is the one on 360?

    I would go to the dark Souls thread but it's 10 million pages long.

    Buy Trials mate.

  • I mostly like these, mostly. I think the comparison of the central mechanics of games to the mechanics of Dark Souls needs to be a bit heftier and elaborated upon, unless you were just using the comparison as a base to jump off and do heavily critical reviews with an element of humour in them? 

    I think the former idea is stronger than the latter idea because personally I've gone a bit off the "super negative because it's funny" style of review. Not that they aren't well written or anything (bar a few typos and the like) they just aren't ON MY BRAND or whatever. 

    So, if you worked on the comparisons and how games could have been inspired by Dark Souls for the better, they'd be more interesting, but also at the same time it would be harder and limit what you can write about because really can SR4 be made better via mechanics and ideas introduced in Dark Souls?

    PS: it took my fucking hours to write this, because I didn't want to come across as a really negative prick about what you've done, cos it isn't by any means bad, I just think you're slightly wasting the concept.
  • Dark Souls isn't great enough for this kind of thing.
  • I mean I'm happy to go with "more games should be about mysterious exploration with a combat system that prioritises a sense of deliberate weight" but I don't think that means Dark Souls specifically.
  • Surely it's as close as possible for your tastes? What do you like more?
  • If I was making a Dark Souls game I'd do what your Bro is doing and cut out the worst part of it: numbers. Fuck them all. I'd probably try my best to remove and levelling system of any sort too.
  • Tempy's posts are longer than a Peter Jackson final scene.
  • If I was making a Dark Souls game I'd do what your Bro is doing and cut out the worst part of it: numbers. Fuck them all. I'd probably try my best to remove and levelling system of any sort too.

    Pretty much this. Basically, if DkS is spiritually beholden to Metroid it should be a bit more spiritually beholden to Metroid.

    I don't resent having to jump into a menu to switch my gear around, but I'd like the actual utility of same to be more opaque, so that you learn what works through actual experience rather than looking at the chartz.

    I'm sure studios can get past hp/mp bars too.
  • Yeah that's what I fancy too. More visual feedback from enemies that isn't just numbers coming off you or the enemy. More emphasis placed on diversity of weapons as opposed to just adding a number after its name. So, you keep stabby weapons for human/animal enemies, blunt instruments for Skeletons etc.

    Instead of being scared off by the skeletons because they're tough to kill and you do a small number to them, make them resilient to bladed weapons and make progress easier through that area by finding a mace after a boss, or in some out of the way dangerous place that you can explore at your own peril, etc
  • Tempy wrote:
    If I was making a Dark Souls game I'd do what your Bro is doing and cut out the worst part of it: numbers. Fuck them all. I'd probably try my best to remove and levelling system of any sort too.

    Well you'll both be pleased based on what I saw last night in my bro's game.

    Things that are in Dark Souls that are in NG+:

    Weight based classes
    Stamina
    Lock on
    Weapon nuances
    Mysterious lore
    Lack of hand holding
    Fair but punishing difficulty

    Things that aren't in NG+that are in Dark Souls:

    Numbers
    Hud (other than stamina/health/magic)
    Inventory (really)
    Stats
    Min Maxing (no level shown)
  • Don't enemies already take more damage from thrust or slash etc? The divine system for the catacombs was (must resist) really good.
  • Greater hostile unit randomisation of placement would be swell also.

    Nick that reads encouraging.
  • I've edited that about 6 times, if it didn't make sense try again.
  • That all sounds good. Inventory in games is ridiculous anyway. In Dark Souls all that shit you're carrying is a joke.

    TheDJR wrote:
    Don't enemies already take more damage from thrust or slash etc? The divine system for the catacombs was (must resist) really good.

    They might do, but it's still all numbers. I just want to see a sword glance off bone, and a hammer break them to bits. No numbers. No STR/INT/FAI no A-E efficiency on weapons, no requirements on what to use based on numbers, instead have situations where certain weapons are marginally more effective than others to coax progression logically. That said, if you have a Claymore it's two handed and probably strong enough to break bone so interesting nuances like that can be achieved without stats.
  • I think you'll like the lack of framing around the gameplay, Mr B. You will spend exactly 0 seconds in menus because there are none, and 0 seconds reading about inscrutable stat boosts because no damage numbers are shown.
  • All games should be NG+ maybe.
  • It's all good in theory but I reckon if any game tried to strip out all the gamey-ness of numbers, inventories and so on it would only be able to do so at the cost of some of the customisation. There's a reason some of these shortcuts are still in use, mostly for some sort of transparency, but it would be interesting to see a game of this complexity do without them if only to see how it failed.
  • Bear in mind this is a game you'll clear in 3-4 hours then (hopefully want to) play again.

    The customisation won't be as long of a commitment as a 60hr Souls game, but it'll feel as specialised.
  • I've tended to think of the numerals as a development shortcut more than a user-end one. The kind of sophistication Temp was just typing there about how weapons interact with different enemy, uh, substances requires resources, and I don't just mean money.
  • hylian_elf wrote:
    All games should be different.

    Or Zelda.

    Take a pick.
    All games should be different to Zelda.

  • All games should be Journey.
    I am a FREE. I am not MAN. A NUMBER.
  • Journey shouldn't have been Journey.
  • Brooks wrote:
    I've tended to think of the numerals as a development shortcut more than a user-end one. The kind of sophistication Temp was just typing there about how weapons interact with different enemy, uh, substances requires resources, and I don't just mean money.
    I can't see myself enjoying a game where I constantly have to judge the visual feedback in that way, not when it comes to minor differences between upgrades or similar weapon types. A bigger number tells me quickly that a particular weapon works better here than another, and that's very welcome.
  • If it intuitive enough it wouldn't be an issue.
  • Sword X bigger and shinier than sword Y then moar powah
  • JonB wrote:
    Brooks wrote:
    I've tended to think of the numerals as a development shortcut more than a user-end one. The kind of sophistication Temp was just typing there about how weapons interact with different enemy, uh, substances requires resources, and I don't just mean money.
    I can't see myself enjoying a game where I constantly have to judge the visual feedback in that way, not when it comes to minor differences between upgrades or similar weapon types. A bigger number tells me quickly that a particular weapon works better here than another, and that's very welcome.
    I haven't played but if the differences between two swords can only be conveyed using a numerical score (+1 better!!!) then that seems kind of shit to me. In pokemon I know how effective a move will me 8/10 times just by the name.
  • Frosty wrote:
    Sword X bigger and shinier than sword Y then moar powah

    It really is things like this, oddly enough. (Then there are basic mechanical factors like length of reach, speed of use i.e. weight, which even DkS is actually on board with to an extent.) The introduction of metrics for err'ting is a very modern peculiarity and not always a welcome one. Certainly not in a context which is leaning heavily pre-modern like DkS.
  • That's a terrible comparison. Pokemon has a very simplified rock, paper, scissor element system that doesn't really convert to swords. Plus when you get down into it the only way you can know bubblebeam is better than water gun is by looking at the numbers.
  • @Brooks

    Reach, speed and weight to an extent?! Every single weapon has these differences, I beat people in PvP every single night because I know that their swing will not be able to hit me at a certain distance. Or that I'll definitely be able to get a hit in and roll away because my one handed katana will swing faster than their two handed greatsword.

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