LarryDavid wrote:Yossarian wrote:I’m not aware of any people in the old days going door to door pretending to be representing groups or individuals that they’re not (sometimes even different races or nationalities entirely) spreading entirely false and inflammatory information designed specifically to appeal to potentially tiny demographics.
Not door to door, that intelligence agencies spread propaganda in targeted ways is old hat. Look at IRD (Information Research Department) in Northern Ireland in the 70’s (and various colonies before then), the CIA etc.
That’s why the concept of ‘fake news’ is such bullshit, it’s always been there to some degree. This whole idea of ‘ooooh, it’s a new era of underhand tactics’ is nonsense. It’s standard procedure, it’s just been outsourced and in some cases hi-jacked for private non-State purposes.
Yossarian wrote:… when you have dozens of competing voices all offering differing versions of reality, then the centre itself cannot hold.
Stopharage wrote:I do. Forgive the Comic Sans. It’s there to help a student with dyslexia.GurtTractor wrote:They really really need to be teaching about manipulative advertising and media in schools IMO, if they aren't already. Fucking horrible scary stuff.
poprock wrote:Yossarian wrote:… when you have dozens of competing voices all offering differing versions of reality, then the centre itself cannot hold.
You mean like having different newspapers with different political agendas?
Yossarian wrote:No, not even slightly. Different newspapers have different takes on situations, certainly, but the basic facts that underpin those situations weren’t generally up for debate. Now they are.poprock wrote:You mean like having different newspapers with different political agendas?Yossarian wrote:… when you have dozens of competing voices all offering differing versions of reality, then the centre itself cannot hold.
?Yossarian wrote:No, not even slightly. Different newspapers have different takes on situations, certainly, but the basic facts that underpin those situations weren’t generally up for debate. Now they are.
Yossarian wrote:Different newspapers have different takes on situations, certainly, but the basic facts that underpin those situations weren’t generally up for debate. Now they are.
Yossarian wrote:The Sport is not an effective counter-argument here as nobody took it seriously. The misinformation being pumped out now is believed by large numbers of people.
No True Scotsman.Yossarian wrote:The Sport is not an effective counter-argument here as nobody took it seriously. ...
Poprock posted the Sport, not me, but the point still stands - some people believe the bullshit in the Sport, some people believe the bullshit on InfoWars, some people believe the bullshit on Fox. So yes, in that the lies are believed by some, in that sense they are directly comparable. You can argue that the scale is different, but you can't deny that they're the same mechanism.Yossarian wrote:Seriously? Have you looked at the polls coming out of the states around what Fox News viewers (the largest cable news station in the country, remember?) believe about the Mueller investigation? Are you seriously comparing this to the effect of the Daily Sport? Edit: Chump.
"Scale" makes it a qualitative/category difference? Quantitative, surely, by definition.Yossarian wrote:Again, I believe that this is qualitatively different because of scale, not speed.
djchump wrote:"Scale" makes it a qualitative/category difference? Quantitative, surely, by definition. Also how does the scale of this "modern phenomena" compare to the likes of the scale during systemic state propaganda e.g. ye olde nazis and commies? (and also ye currente daye North Korea). Your idea that "but the basic facts that underpin those situations weren’t generally up for debate" is nonsense. "Truth has always been the first casualty of War".Yossarian wrote:Again, I believe that this is qualitatively different because of scale, not speed.
Oh I see, you don't mean "scale" as in how widespread the lies are, but "scale" as in the variety of lies being spread - in that "nonlinear warfare" style, where you bamboozle the proles with conflicting lies/disinformation to the point where they don't know which way is up.Yossarian wrote:The scale prevents there being a single agreed notion of truth within a certain society, something that there always was before, even if that notion of truth was itself untrue.
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