So, to put it in (probably oversimplified) simple terms, JS deals with the nuts and bolts of building a site while CSS and HTML are used for making it look pretty?

Thing is Yoss you're at the point where you're just going to have to dive in somewhere.

As I said earlier the best thing is to understand conceptually how everything works - how the "front-end" (what users see and interact with, how information is arranged and accessed) is connected to the "back-end" (the data and services that provide the information that populates that front-end user interface), and so on.

If I were going to learn to code, I'd get a book or go on a course that explained about these concepts first - once you get the concepts, you can quickly understand the various nomenclature, rules and structures that each language applies to them (which is why people repeatedly state that once you've learnt one language learning others is faster) and apply that knowledge to learning a particular language, be it Swift or Javascript.

Building a webpage, for example, typically requires HTML (what elements (paragraphs, titles, body text, images...) are where (layout) on the webpage), CSS (how things look in terms of colour, animations, etc) and JS (the engine that powers the interactions and communication with the back-end server, which obtains the information (said images, body text, titles and any databases with persistent or temporary information, for example user details, high scores, whatever) - but you need to understand why that is, I think, before getting into "I'm going to learn Swift".

I'm quite liking the idea of getting stuck into a language, tbh. All of the terms and concepts can flow on from that. A decent glossary, written in plain English, may well come in useful, but I'd have thought that a half decent beginner's guide would explain what I need to know anyway.

Having said that, a brief overview doesn't seem like a bad idea. A quick google has turned this up, hopefully it will give me some basics.

http://codingintro.com/chapter/en/1/introduction

Beyond that, AJ's made a pretty solid case for JavaScript, and starting with something that will likely continue to remain useful seems like a good idea. Although, I should try to find out a little more about PHP.

acemuzzy wrote:

I'd advise against PHP as it will teach you awful habits. For server stuff, try python. But yeah, JS etc is sensible enough as a starting point

I disagree.
I think PHP is the easiest way to teach the full stack.

http://www.mamp.info/en/

Basically, you install that, run it, then go to:

http://localhost

That's a quick and valuble lesson for an absolute beginner in and off itself, I think.
How would you teach that idea with Python, without needing more than 5 lines to do it?

Here's the official line from the site itself...

MAMP installs a local server environment in a matter of seconds on your Mac OS X computer, be it MacBook or iMac. Like similar packages from the Windows- and Linux-world, MAMP comes free of charge, and is easily installed. MAMP will not compromise any existing Apache installation already running on your system. You can install Apache, PHP and MySQL without starting a script or having to change any configuration files! Furthermore, if MAMP is no longer needed, just delete the MAMP folder and everything returns to its original state (i.e. MAMP does not modify any of the "normal" system).

I'm going to argue that someone will need to be around to field some of the initial questions, but seriously, a *AMP package is the best possible place for a beginner to start...

But this is where I back out.

I'm trying to help him. Not prove anything...

Pfft!

Ok. So in the first instance, a *AMP server installation will solidify an understanding of relative file paths, URLs, and basic networking tenets. Those are quite big wins, can we agree on that?

I'm also advocating *AMP as a learning tool, because it will also directly illustrate how over 80% of web pages and applications are built, and it's not too hard a lesson to teach this way.

Also, PHP is only written badly, if you write it badly... 
So is Javascript, Java, C++, Scala, Swift, etc...

http://reidburke.com/2008/10/05/when-php-is-your-first-language/

Making PHP my first language made it harder to grasp pointers, strong types, and memory management in other languages. It initially made it more difficult to use OOP properly. However, if I didn’t make PHP my first language, I may have been so intimidated by the “stuff” that I may have given up.

This, is exactly the point I'm advocating. And that's not the only one. There are also plenty of articles that suggest the opposite. You should also read those, and make up your own mind.

I also accept that everyone is different. So perhaps if you all think you can support Yoss to learn language A or B over PHP, then fair enough.

FTR, JavaScript is a shit language, too. Personally, I'm still in love with ActionScript and mourn its passing.

Let us know any thoughts you have.

Also, my mention of Haxe earlier wasn't in jest. I want to use it myself.

Yossarian wrote:

Incidentally, what's this place built with? I believe that Petey's got a version up on GitHub, tinkering with that could be useful.

It's a PHP application, with a MySQL backend (well, database).
This is why I have trouble with people knocking PHP. It's everywhere, it secure, and it's solid. 

But everyone seems to suggest it's not...

After clicking through a few of those links from that blog post that Dyno posted, I think that I might not start with PHP. I don't mind putting a bit of effort in to get my head around this, and it seems like starting with PHP might make it tricky to move onto other things. Conversely, if I begin with something else and then move onto PHP it looks like it should be fairly easy.

So, JavaScript it is. Hmm, I wonder if there's a decent app for that?

Well, good luck, but I'll still recommend PHP.

Perhaps even try to learn it alongside JavaScript. 
Up to a certain level (simple web development), you'll find PHP much more useful, and much easier to learn.

But then I've never done a Codeacademy course, and can't vouch for them.
Some of my colleagues swear by online courses though, but not many of them...

Will be interesting to see how you get on. :]

Done finished the first set of courses on codecademy (I really wish that I had some idea how that would be said out loud). Nothing too taxing so far, although I imagine I'm already getting into sloppy coding habits.

All of the examples, for instance, feature a semicolon at the end of every line, plus a space between numbers and operators (is that the right word? I mean 2 + 2 rather than 2+2), plus the squiggly brackets around if/else statements being put on separate lines. None of this appears to be necessary, so I've not been bothering with it, but presumably these conventions exist in order to make your code easier for others to understand, am I right?

It's 'operands' you sick fucks!!!

I hang my head in shame for not thinking what I was writing.

Operand != operator