Film/Video Discussion Thread
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    That last section in OUATIH is as close to a film jumping the shark as I have seen in all my years. I thought it was hilarious but not for the reasons Tarantino wanted us to.
  • Tonight’s feature presentation is Mission Impossible: Dead Reckoning Pt1.
    Currently an hour in.
    This is good fun, but I have to say I don’t really understand what’s going on. It’s all very missionimpossibly though, so I’m happy enough to be along for the ride, so far.
    Come with g if you want to live...
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    I want to watch it but it’s so darned long!
  • It is indeed a ridiculous length.
    Come with g if you want to live...
  • I think they got a little caught up in the Entity of it all.
    I still had fun with it but I don't think they were going to ever be able to top Fallout which not only had the best action the series has ever had but also had the nice simplicity of nukes being the big threat.
  • Yeah. I’m an hour and three quarters in and I’d have to agree. Franchise peaked with Fallout, and we’re now into the so big it feels like parody era of the franchise.
    Still an entertaining ride, but the plot is absolute bollocks.
    Come with g if you want to live...
  • Has to be said though, the score, based around Lalo Schifrin’s original work from the tv series, is just so fucking good. The second it kicks in, it’s impossible not to be swept along in the madness.
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  • Oh yeah, the lead into the main credits especially always gives me goosebumps and makes me forget that I'm essentially seeing the whole film in a montage through those credits.

    It's also interesting to read/listen to how they make these movies where they're kind of just making up and piecing the story together as they go. I feel like this is the first one where you can feel that style of filmmaking as it doesn't hold together as well as the last few. But, like, they filmed the parachute jump off the cliff (because Cruise wanted to do that stunt) and then had to figure out why he was doing that and where it would end up later on.

    I also think this one is hampered by having to CGI some of the backgrounds which takes away from the real stunts. Like what they did with the Paris parachute jump in Fallout whereby putting it in a storm meant it didn't look like they actually did the stunt, I feel like they undermined a lot of the train work they did. I'd actually be interested to know how much of the train stuff was filmed on an actual movie train because it's hard to tell and not in the good way.
  • Yeah, there’s a definite uncanny valley with a lot of the stunt work in this one. Lot of the time it just looks very augmented with cgi to the point that you’re left wondering what’s real and what’s bollocks.
    Anyway, done now. Enjoyable enough, but far too long, the plot is absolute garbage, and it just feels like I’ve seen this all before, but done much better.
    Feels like the franchise has steered itself into Roger Moore/Pierce Brosnan Bond era territory, which is not a good thing.
    Mission Impossible has always been fantastical, but this one rides the shark off a cliff with the sheer amount of implausibilities and plot holes, and the whole Entity thing is absolutely nonsensical.
    Still, Hayley Atwell was really good, and the score kicks ass.
    Predicto for part 2…
    Spoiler:
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  • I think
    Spoiler:
  • Spoiler:
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  • The plotting really was fucking weak when you think back to it.
    How did this guy know this, or find that, or turn up in the right place at the right time, or happen to have convenient bombs planted all over the place, or, or…
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  • Yeah I think it would have helped to show how the AI communicated with the bad guys. Even just one shot of a text telling him something he wouldn't have known or maybe an earpiece. I suppose you're meant to just assume it but to me it seemed like he was working under his own power for most of the time when he would have needed constant AI guidance to know where to go.

    But really it doesn't matter because Fallout exists and if I want an MI fix I'll just go back to that one
  • Aye, they’ll never top Fallout.
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  • Raiziel
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    Fallout is great.

    The original is better.
    Get schwifty.
  • i thought dead reckoning was quite poor. 'exciting' moments but just too OTT and too stupid. i think it was proof that less is more...so many action set pieces that by the end i was bored of them rather than impressed and excited. every element of the story felt paper thin and stupid, and everyone just constantly turns up in the same place at the same time in just the right order for the next stunt.
    "Like i said, context is missing."
    http://ssgg.uk
  • Yeah, it's entertaining, and the action is obviously top tier, but it really just becomes an annoying mess of contrivances by the time it gets passed the mid-point. Really feels like they were making it up as it went along, rather than having a story to tell before they started shooting. It's just action set piece/exposition scene/action set piece, over and over and over, with nothing engaging in the way of plot to string it all together.
    Couple of things. The main henchman, Gabriel. At the start you get this very brief flashback that shows a bit of young Ethan's first encounter with him decades prior. Now I just assumed this was a flashback to maybe the first MI, which I haven't seen since it was released in the cinema, which would explain why it's so brief. I was basically left thinking Eh? What is this flash backing to, should I remember this, and why is it all so vague? Turns out the film was originally meant to start with a twenty-five minute cold-open flashback to that story with a de-aged Cruise. They did actually shoot some, or all of this, but Mcquarrie binned the entire sequence because he didn't like the effect the de-aged Cruise had on it. Unsurprisingly he couldn't see passed the de-aged Cruise's face in any of the scenes, and decided that this was a bad thing, so binned the entire sequence. So now all the viewer is left with is that brief, confusing flashback to what is essentially a completely new villain to the franchise, but the implication was to me anyway, that I should rememberber this guy from an earlier film. Not good.

    With regards to the appearance of much of the stunt work, this was apparently the first MI to be shot on digital rather than film, and I think this is where a lot of the uncanniness stems from in the action sequences. I'm guessing they were forced to shoot digital, because it was a Covid shoot, and all the film labs were in lockdown, but it's definitely to the detriment of the overall look of the film.

    It's also the only MI plot which I've ever suffered from constantly thinking, How did he get here/know this/have this/do this... because the plot is just absolute nonsense (and full of holes). This is unusual, because while the MI films are by their very nature, fantastical nonsense, they are usually pretty damn good at not crossing that line that stops the viewer suspending disbelief. Not this one.
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  • davyK
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    The MI films have moved toward thinking up a stunt and then doing the film around it. The "Bike off the cliff" was done before any other shooting as far as I know.

    For all that I find them enjoyable. Love a bit of nonsense but the problem is trying to be more clever than the preceeding one and that's hit a wall. The Oceans X films knew when to stop for example.

    I don't expect much off this sort of thing so am rarely disappointed.  But it was long.
    Holding the wrong end of the stick since 2009.
  • Yeah, the bike off a cliff stunt is an odd one. I'm sure in Cruise's head it was totes amazeballs, but as a viewer, it's really not that impressive to watch. This is also compounded by them releasing all that making of awesome stunt footage prior to the release of the film. Bad move that imo. Bit like a magician giving away all their secrets while you're still standing in line outside the theatre. These things are best kept until your audience has seen your film. Good for extras on a disc somewhere down the line, but I guess the move to streaming has fucked that.
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  • davyK
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    Another way to look at it is Cruise is just having a ball doing these mad things and creating a film to finance it.

    :)

    Is he still into scientology?
    Holding the wrong end of the stick since 2009.
  • Very much so. He’s just savvy enough to never talk about it now.
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  • davyK
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    Heh.

    I like some actors to be bonkers. The old school way. Rex Harrison, Oliver Reid and co.

    We have Walken and Cage but it's not quite the same - they are more eccentric.
    Holding the wrong end of the stick since 2009.
  • g.man wrote:
    Yeah, the bike off a cliff stunt is an odd one. I'm sure in Cruise's head it was totes amazeballs, but as a viewer, it's really not that impressive to watch. This is also compounded by them releasing all that making of awesome stunt footage prior to the release of the film. Bad move that imo. Bit like a magician giving away all their secrets while you're still standing in line outside the theatre. These things are best kept until your audience has seen your film. Good for extras on a disc somewhere down the line, but I guess the move to streaming has fucked that.
    it's a tricky one to balance with stuff like that i guess. i've not really been a fan of the MI films, it was how much i enjoyed Maverick that got me interested in this, and then watching that stunt stuff pre release kind of got me more into it with how much Tom puts into the physical stunts etc. and hoping they could connect it with an enjoyable (if simple) story like they did with maverick.
    however by the time i was watching the film and it was stunt after stunt, i was kind of just waiting for them to get to the bike bit to see how it played out...and it didn't really feel all that special as a moment. Impressive knowing it was done by the actor, but not in a way that i think you would feel any different about the film if it had just been done by a stuntman.
    "Like i said, context is missing."
    http://ssgg.uk
  • Indeed.
    Getting back to where MI goes now, I gather they're re-writing the sequel to try and course correct the hole they've dug themselves into, to the point that it's not even going to be called Dead reckoning Part II anymore.
    I don't expect this to happen, but I'd love to see them get back to the essence of the franchise, espionage, gadgets, double-crosses and amazing rug-pulls. I don't believe they'll be savvy enough to do this, but as franchises go, they are uniquely placed to be able to do that sort of thing by the very nature of the source material.
    Sadly they'll probably just go even bigger with the stunts, but I don't think this is the answer.
    I'm betting we'll just end up with Mission Impossible: Dud Retconning Part II, rather than anything more enjoyably cerebral.
    Come with g if you want to live...
  • Also, this is a really good vid about the metric fucktonne of cgi that was used in the making of Top Gun: Maverick...

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  • yeah. i have very little interest in a straight part 2 if it's just going to be more of the same stuff. I'm not sure i cared about the story at the time and can barely remember it now.
    Perhaps they could wrap that bit up in a pre credits sequence and just do a totally different story in the main film ;)
    "Like i said, context is missing."
    http://ssgg.uk
  • davyK
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    I have little memory of the story myself. But I'll probably rewatch pt1 and then go see pt2 in the cinema.
    Holding the wrong end of the stick since 2009.
  • It's annoying, because they could easily course correct with some classic everything you thought you knew is wrong shenanigans, but I suspect Cruise's love of a stupid stunt will overrule any arguments for that.
    Come with g if you want to live...
  • You make a good point with the cinematography of the newest MI as well. I thought it was interesting (and it gave me great pause) when hearing McQuarrie talk about some of the choices they made in filming this new one. Doing things a different way doesn't always make something worse but I do feel like core changes to how they filmed some stuff here did make for a lesser film.

    It's not quite as bad as Zack Snyder being the DP on his films now (yikes!) but I do think it had a negative effect on their ability to piece together the film
  • I think this whole ‘string of action sequences barely taped together’ thing is an industry-wide trend, not just the M:I movies.

    Look at the Fast & Furious franchise, or the straight-to-Netflix B-movies like Heart of Stone and Red Notice. Maybe it’s the logical end result of the rise of CGI capabilities.

    So long as it’s not the only way blockbuster films go, and there continue to be alternative approaches, we should be alright.

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