PEGI to take full control of game ratings - The Bear and Badger

LazyGunn

Unlikely wrote:

Especially as the same system's been used for film classification for over a million years.

Absurd, source please

vicinity_of_pie

DilutedDante wrote:

Yes I am. A parent buying GTA for their 7 year old is a shit parent. You could equally say what business is it of the chap in the offie.

Any parent that lets their child watch disney films is a bad parent. See? I can do it too. I'll let you just guess at my reasoning.

Diluted Dante

I don't think anyone needs to particularly guess why I feel Grand Theft Auto is unsuitable for a 7 year old. But if you require explanation.

vicinity_of_pie

Great, so as someone who sells games I agree you should advise parents as such but if it's not illegal as you say that brings me back to how is it any of your business and how is it your place to judge how one should raise their child?

Diluted Dante

I'm saying it should be illegal. I didn't think this was particularly difficult to understand.

LazyGunn

vicinity_of_pie wrote:

Great, so as someone who sells games I agree you should advise parents as such but if it's not illegal as you say that brings me back to how is it any of your business and how is it your place to judge how one should raise their child?

with all due respect to you mr pie, ive had plenty of reasons for judging the way many people bring up their children over the years and this issue, while trivial in the grand scheme of updragging, is relevant, and as with dante i cannot comprehend why one would let a young child play a game like gta

vicinity_of_pie

Yep and i'm saying why, because some ratings agency decided it's not suitable for certain groups of people? Well that's stupid and to label someone a bad parent just because you don't agree with one particular choice is also stupid - especially when you refuse to give proper reasons.

Please don't come back with "you don't understand what i'm saying" because you're not actually explaining yourself at all.

vicinity_of_pie

LazyGunn wrote:

Great, so as someone who sells games I agree you should advise parents as such but if it's not illegal as you say that brings me back to how is it any of your business and how is it your place to judge how one should raise their child?

with all due respect to you mr pie, ive had plenty of reasons for judging the way many people bring up their children over the years and this issue, while trivial in the grand scheme of updragging, is relevant, and as with dante i cannot comprehend why one would let a young child play a game like gta

Perhaps they only let them drive around? Who knows?.

I'm not even saying it is fine, I just don't understand why Dante thinks he's in a better place to judge what is right/wrong for someones child than the parent themselves. It's entirely possible for a seven year old to understand the difference between a game and reality. I want to know what actual damage letting someone as young as 7 play GTA would do and the evidence for it.

Diluted Dante

Out of interest then, your stance on parental oking of booze, fags, porn?

Diluted Dante

Also, in that case buy fucking Forza.

LazyGunn

i think when youre young and youre allowed to do something, you come to expect it, its called spoiling and while childrearing is a nebulous and incomprehensible matter some pretty absolutely freaking obvious factors of human nature should be taken into account

a young child playing such a game does not make someone a bad parent, it does not guarantee a shitty child, in fact the child may grow to be a great openminded person with an anarchic sense of humour (or well, anything), but making death, violence and probably most of all DISRESPECT, not of ones elders or betters just space and values (which these games do constantly but older people can rationalise more coherently, usually), is not a great thing on a mind that can become familiar and expectant extremely quickly, and should be mitigated, and hence no i don't fathom the idea of making this devaluation of people an ok thing to teach

these games are great, as are films, and are educational to a degree about possibilities in human nature, but you need to be old enough to rationalise in a balanced way, and i cant see a young child doing anything other than consumed, unbalanced and taking such things for granted

google

You're both missing Pie's extremely valid point.

If a parent decides, for whatever reason, that they want their child to experience a piece, all, or none of GTA it should be up to them to decide not the shop assistant in GAME with little to no experience of raising a child.

Do I personally want my seven year old to experience the joys of GTA before they're allowed to stay up past 7PM on a weekday? No. But that's not to say I should be telling the guy next door what to do with such a decision.

Bringing it to fags/booze/etc is ridiculous. Those are harmful substances that can do great damage to a younger person's health. There isÂ absolutelyÂ no correlation between playing a violent videogame and a child becoming a violent person in later life.

LazyGunn

Iunno why physical health is more salient in someone's wellbeing than mental health, however hard to define mental health is. You dont need reports to know that children cant make balanced decisions about moral (at the time) enigmas, id rather theyd at least be more brutally and realistically inducted into the universe of life being shit outside where theres context.

This is too prey to personal opinion i think, the thing is a huge part of me rails against censorship in any form, absolutely, but some inner voice in me says some people cannot make these decisions

google

LazyGunn wrote:

Iunno why physical health is more salient in someone's wellbeing than mental health, however hard to define mental health is. You dont need reports to know that children cant make balanced decisions about moral (at the time) enigmas, id rather theyd at least be more brutally and realistically inducted into the universe of life being shit outside where theres context. This is too prey to personal opinion i think, the thing is a huge part of me rails against censorship in any form, absolutely, but some inner voice in me says some people cannot make these decisions

This is a different point we're arguing.

We're getting into the realm of who should be allowed to have kids, who's the best person to make decisions, etc.

Which is pretty fucking crazy.

LazyGunn

Well that is the realm! As soon as you stray from black or white the discussion gets extremely complex. On this matter I can only state my opinion and thats just how I feel in my gut, and thats that really! No disrespect to those who disagree, I think theres a billion more important things you can hate on your fellow man about when criticising their acuity at making their spawn a goodun

google

LazyGunn wrote:

Well that is the realm! As soon as you stray from black or white the discussion gets extremely complex. On this matter I can only state my opinion and thats just how I feel in my gut, and thats that really! No disrespect to those who disagree, I think theres a billion more important things you can hate on your fellow man about when criticising their acuity at making their spawn a goodun

Which is fine, we'll not enter that discussion here.

ItÂ doesn'tÂ negate Pie's argument though, which both you and Dante failed to understand.

LazyGunn

I understand it, i disagree with it, some people should be told, i'm not getting into the discussion. Disagreeing with it doesnt mean I dont understand it, and i'm aware the implications make me a bit of a sod.. but i dunno, call me jaded?

Diluted Dante

google wrote:

You're both missing Pie's extremely valid point. If a parent decides, for whatever reason, that they want their child to experience a piece, all, or none of GTA it should be up to them to decide not the shop assistant in GAME with little to no experience of raising a child.

I'm not saying I want to be able to judge. I'm saying that I want the law to be what Mod thought it was.

Mod74

DilutedDante wrote:

That's not the case. If a parent/guardian wants to buy GTA for their 7 year old, then they can. I'd rather it was that way, then I could tell them all to fuck off.

I guess Blockbuster were covering their arses when their training video said it was illegal to sell to anyone who you thought was buying for underage.

Sasukekun

While it is obvious that no-one has the right to tell someone how to raise their child, it is blatantly obvious that kids need to be shielded from inappropriate content, be it gore, violence or porn.
As has been stated, it's not illegal for a parent to buy an age restricted game for someone under the recommended age to play. Same as a parent can buy alcohol for an underage person in restaurants and pubs/clubs.
I certainly won't be letting my son be exposed to content I don't believe is right for him and I get annoyed at the language and attitudes he is exposed to within the family. But it's proving to be aggravating trying to get everyone singing from the same hymn sheet.

ZMM

Haven't read any of what's been said but, didn't they already say this was gonna happen and it didn't happen?

Diluted Dante

Yes, but now it's definitely going to happen.

monkey

Surely I'm not alone in having watched 18 rated films from around the age of 11/12. Probably before.
The age ratings are there to be flouted.

LazyGunn

i think i watched robocop when i was 8 or something and i turned out 'fine', but yeah i think its better that there at least be placed a firm idea of parents actualy realising what their kids are playing, even though they may flaunt it, and this is what i was struggling with before. You cant really judge anyone for letting people experience or allowing others to experience but so long as the tone is understood that these are serious themes in here dem games

Mod74

I've talked in the past about letting the lad see films and play games rated above his age before now. However they were always films/games I'd already seen/played and could make a judgement on.

You could perhaps expect most parents to do the same for films but my hunch is the majority won't have played the games their kids are asking if they can play.

As artificial as the ratings system is its still the best tool a parent in that situation has to make a decision.

It's all fairly pointless anyway. I forbade him from playing GTAIV (not for the violence, which I think is fairly tame compared to others but for it's misogynistic an homophobic attitudes) but I know for a fact he played it a friends house. And he still woke up screaming because "the girl in the TV was coming to get him".

The best you can do is try and exlpain and model the differences between right and wrong, good and bad. With guidance most kids'll work it out, most aren't permanently stupid, they just act it between 14 and 18.

Diluted Dante

See, Mod is doing what people should be doing. Quite a lot of people clearly aren't.

handsofblue

Let me test my understanding: PEGI ratings mean you can't sell to anyone under the age rating but parents can still buy and give to their possibly very young child?

handsofblue

Bloody phone. I shall use this double post to wish you all joy and happiness.

LazyGunn

as with all things of this nature i'd purpose

Bollockoff

The law surrounding PEGI now means it's actually illegal for kids below the age rating to even play the game.

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