The Last of Us 2 : Naughty Dog do their fine thing - The Bear and Badger

Dinostar77

Im going in, its full of stars

Edit: nice review jonb. I may day one this now.

JonB

I'm genuinely surprised how impressed I was by it. I'm not the biggest fan of the first game, and even less of Uncharted, but this is a substantial improvement on what they do.

Still, even though it's a stunning achievement in so many ways, it's problematic in others, like its use of violence. TBH it’s one I struggled to score, and certainly considered dropping it down. It was really borderline between 4 and 5 stars, and I gave it the benefit of the doubt.

mistercrayon

It’s getting good reviews !

Dinostar77

Question about review

Spoiler:

Cupatay

Yeah good review Jon, cheers for posting it.

Bob

mistercrayon wrote:

It’s getting good reviews !

Not at Kotaku

JonB

Dinostar77 wrote:

Question about review

Spoiler:

you said its a tad too long. How long did it take you to complete?

Bearing in mind that I tend to take my time and go slowly, it took me

Spoiler:

hunk

Seems to be the definitive action adventure of the generation. The set pieces, the script, the acting, the animation system.

hunk

JonB wrote:

I'm genuinely surprised how impressed I was by it. I'm not the biggest fan of the first game, and even less of Uncharted, but this is a substantial improvement on what they do.

Still, even though it's a stunning achievement in so many ways, it's problematic in others, like its use of violence. TBH it’s one I struggled to score, and certainly considered dropping it down. It was really borderline between 4 and 5 stars, and I gave it the benefit of the doubt.

Aye, from what I've seen the violence is extremely graphic and realistic. It's thematicly important too as it is supposed to make you feel uneasy.

Dinostar77

The kokatu and jonb's review do have a similarity in that both mention the

Spoiler:

. Tbh im not sure what the kokatu review expected from a last of us game.

Bob

Dinostar77 wrote:

The kokatu and jonb's review do have a similarity in that both mention the

Spoiler:

exceeding amount of violence
. Tbh im not sure what the kokatu review expected from a last of us game.

She mentions she enjoyed watching the first one being played maybe the agency of playing it for review feels different

I still worry it didn’t really need a sequel

hylian_elf

I am officially going blind on this now. Not gonna come in here or read any reviews.

mistercrayon

Dinostar77 wrote:

The kokatu and jonb's review do have a similarity in that both mention the

Spoiler:

exceeding amount of violence
. Tbh im not sure what the kokatu review expected from a last of us game.

There’s been literally one game? I don’t know how you can extrapolate from that that the formula is locked.

Dinostar77

Re: violence.

It would be interesting to see a game that had consequences for the violence. Be it a reluctance of the protagonist to engage in violence or unnecessary violence. Or struggles to cope with with their actions. Or flip it and have the protagonist lose some of their empathy and humanity.

Say for example, we had a game that was set across a trilogy. One where your actions would carry through to the sequels ala Mass Effect.

As game one progresses your character starts to revel in the violence, becomes more and more someone you despise. By the end of game one you are given a choice. Let the protagonist face a death sentence for their crimes (this would kill the protagonist off for the sequels permanently) or let them escape punishment and continue their violence with wreckless abandon in the sequel.

Now for a twist. What you aren't told is that in the sequel, if you chose to keep the protagonist alive, he has become the main villain (yes its abit on the nose). But it would be interesting to go up against your protagonist from game 1. Viewing the consequences of your actions throughba different set of eyes. Knowing that the character you fed and levelled up is now the big bad you have to take down. Consequences.

Anyway its an idea.

Dinostar77

mistercrayon wrote:

Dinostar77 wrote:

The kokatu and jonb's review do have a similarity in that both mention the

Spoiler:

exceeding amount of violence
. Tbh im not sure what the kokatu review expected from a last of us game.

There’s been literally one game? I don’t know how you can extrapolate from that that the formula is locked.

Its a post apocalyptic game in a world full of zombie creatures. Its been a formula for violence since the first movies of this type came out. im just saying the reviewer knew they were going to get. Its like going to watch The Road (post apocalypse movie) and complaining its too bleak, stark and depressing. What did you expect?

stonechalice

Lol at the Polygon review. They just couldn't resist. Paragraph after paragraph whining about the violence. It's a violent fucking videogame FFS we get it. I really cannot stand Polygon. Fuckwits.

JonB

That it's violent isn't the point. It's what it's trying to say with that violence and whether it's a good way of communicating that idea, or whether it cheapens or undermines it.

I won't say any more, but there's plenty of scope for criticism in there. Naughty Dog certainly seem to think they're doing something clever with it. Maybe they misjudged it?

Eric

Do you score your reviews Jon or do the editors do that?

Only your review reads like a 4/4.5 not the perfect 5.

JonB

Eric wrote:

Do you score your reviews Jon or do the editors do that? Only your review reads like a 4/4.5 not the perfect 5.

I scored it. I considered 4. If there were halves I'd definitely go 4.5.

But generally you have to take out of 5 as a more approximate system than others, I think. And it gets screwed when somewhere like Metacritic converts it to 100% - it absolutely isn't that.

Frosty

Don't think this is for me. The disconnect between the violence, the meta commentary naughty dog are trying to push, and a lack of any sort of reflection or growth from the characters just sounds exhausting.

Glad you enjoyed it though Jon, the part in your review where you mentioned exploring seattle did sound lovely.

mistercrayon

Maybe the lack of growth is naughty dog reflecting on A ridiculous successful consistent run of sociopath simulators from uncharted 1.

Edit: without playing the game- it occurs to me at least two of the reviews highlight the lack of growth in the characters and yet it you look at the reviews and the sales (I bet) and you have to ask: why should they grow?

Dinostar77

I get that crayon, but whats the point to all this new tech if we cant get more rounded, realised characters? Its getting boring playing mass murdering psychopaths. Thats why i couldnt be bothered with the latest Uncharted or Tomb Rider. For the latter why couldnt the game have an achievement for not killing anyone. Wounding them (not fatality or just beatin them up) would be fine for now.

I think the violence (not talking about LoU2) is a lazy way out for developers. Ok maybe publishers are demanding guns galore but not using guns and having to think of creative setpieces / sandboxes for players could lead to a different type of experience and maybe a shorter one. Thats no bad thing as games are too long now anyway.

mistercrayon

The thing is we might be tired of it but critics and most people aren’t so what is the impetus for naughty dog to evolve or more tellingly is it too risky for them to change the formula? Maybe they keep pushing to the edge of the violence until the game is a critical and commercial bust and then they can do something else.

This is a kind of spoiler but

Spoiler:

stonechalice

I dunno if I can be arsed with this game after watching this...

g.man

Aye, watched that this morning. Interesting how many conditions Sony put on reviewers.

FranticPea

Won't watch because spoilers, but what's the general jist if you don't mind?

regmcfly

FranticPea wrote:

Won't watch because spoilers, but what's the general jist if you don't mind?

If it's like other reviews it presents brutality without any consequence or discussion aside from "people are bad". But your character does some wild shit throughout the game. Feels a bit like torture porn to many reviewers. I don't know for sure as flora is buying it and I want to see it myself.

Verecocha

I’ve almost given up my replay of the original. It’s just, not enjoyable at all anymore, if it ever really was. Maybe originally the story kept me going somewhat. I’d be having regrets about pre-ordering the sequel if it wasn’t so quiet in releases at the moment.

g.man

FranticPea wrote:

Won't watch because spoilers, but what's the general jist if you don't mind?

Spoiler:

stonechalice

That review

Spoiler:

As sumptuous as the game looks I can see this being another Red Dead 2 for me. All balls out graphical prowess hiding a bloated, weak gameplay experience.

I will play this at some point but can't see me going day one now. I'm just not on the mood at the minute either lol.

EDIT: What G said.

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