Hogwarts Legacy - The Bear and Badger

b0r1s

In 4K though. So there’s that.

b0r1s

Yes there is.

LivDiv

Request to change thread name to J K Rowling's: The Division

DrewMerson

JonB

Knight wrote:

As for do more reading, I’m well read on this issue.

Only on one side, though, it seems.

Paul the sparky

LivDiv wrote:

Request to change thread name to J K Rowling's: The Division

Hogwarts Lunacy

afgavinstan

Other countries: *riots in the street if petrol goes too high*

UK: 'ere, wot abaht them transgenders eh????

Absolutely sick to death of the chat surrounding that prisoner framing an entire debate.

Anyway, I'm out. Enjoy the game, those who are optimistic.

DrewMerson

Paul the sparky

Yer a TERF, Hermione!

Paul the sparky

JonB wrote:

GooberTheHat wrote:

JonB wrote:

Paul the sparky wrote:

It's also a reasonable ask to let someone enjoy the game without labeling them as anti trans, which is what's happening at the minute

It depends who you ask. There's a wide range of opinions about it out there among those who are making a point of not buying it.

I'll make sure to remind my daughter she's a terf every time she plays the game.

Where the hell did that come from? Why did you quote me?

For the record, you yourself don't think anyone playing the game is transphobic, Shirley?

JonB

ChopperByrne wrote:

Calling her anti-trans is a nonsense too. She's pro women's rights. There is obviously a conflict of rights when men can just identify as women, and then legally be regarded as female and not male. Recent events in Scotland show this.

The trans groups I've seen talk about this agree that the placement of trans prisoners should be done on a case-by-case basis, taking into account potential threats to safety. I've not seen anyone suggest that a rapist with a penis should be put in the general women's population. I have, however, seen people jump on this cause as a means to further the idea that trans women in general are perverts and rapists. And I'd hazard a guess those same people care very little for the general safety standards in women's prisons, even though that's a much more pressing issue.

JonB

Paul the sparky wrote:

JonB wrote:

GooberTheHat wrote:

JonB wrote:

Paul the sparky wrote:

It's also a reasonable ask to let someone enjoy the game without labeling them as anti trans, which is what's happening at the minute

It depends who you ask. There's a wide range of opinions about it out there among those who are making a point of not buying it.

I'll make sure to remind my daughter she's a terf every time she plays the game.

Where the hell did that come from? Why did you quote me?

For the record, you yourself don't think anyone playing the game is transphobic, Shirley?

I'm not sure why I have to go on record, but, no, I wouldn't go that far. It's never that simple. I just hope anyone who does play it doesn't dismiss the issues around it out of hand, and tries to understand why those issues exist, and why some people feel such a sense of hurt/anger/disappointment.

Paul the sparky

It's to clear up a bit of confusion, because it looked like you were saying that's an ok opinion to hold. When it's obviously not.

And again, playing it doesn't automatically dismiss any of the issues around it. It's understandable that people are hurt and angry, but they need to think about where they're aiming that anger and not be fucking idiots about it

Dark Soldier

acemuzzy wrote:

Everything gets so polarised these days. Saying that buying the game makes you, personally, a raving transphobe is clearly loony..

This, primarily. There's a whole raft of media and culture out there that is made by, developed by, endorsed by artists and studios and people with horrible, disgusting practices and morals. It feels the discourse on this, having browsed some reviews and rllmuk, is troublesome in that the majority of conversation is always 100% you're a fucking cunt transphobe if you play it, or 100% I just wanna play the game mate. Stuff made by 'others' barely gets a mention and is just played/watched/listened to. Weird disconnect for me.

I suppose its because its such a 'now' issue in the limelight that theres a lack of nuance really. My missus' best friend is currently transitioning MTF and they're loving the game. They grew up as a big Potter kid, used to dress us as Hermione, and attribute it to some of the joy they felt in those early years in comparison to the internal struggle they had.

I'm not gonna ask them to justify why they are playing it. Nor am I gonna judge others for doing the same. But at the end of the day they're essentially a horrible fucking tansphobe for what they're doing or something, as are young kids etc.

It's such a weird situation all round, absolute frothing at the mouth vitriol and anger, and I can see the cis woman issues towards transwomen, I've had some great discussions with both my partner and her friend.

Dunno, just ranting, discourse is absolutely fucked beyond belief in this day and age.

Dark Soldier

Despite not being a Potter fan though the more I see of it the more I'm tempted. It looks very comfort gaming.

FranticPea

It's a really well made open world game with decent combat and loads to discover. Very comfort gaming.

DrewMerson

JonB

Paul the sparky wrote:

It's to clear up a bit of confusion, because it looked like you were saying that's an ok opinion to hold. When it's obviously not. And again, playing it doesn't automatically dismiss any of the issues around it. It's understandable that people are hurt and angry, but they need to think about where they're aiming that anger and not be fucking idiots about it

I don't agree with it, but I understand it. And understanding means not thinking someone's automatically a fucking idiot for lashing out. To me, your position is as reductive as the one you're railing against.

JonB

Dark Soldier wrote:

It feels the discourse on this, having browsed some reviews and rllmuk, is troublesome in that the majority of conversation is always 100% you're a fucking cunt transphobe if you play it, or 100% I just wanna play the game mate.

It's funny you mention RLLMUK, because I've been keeping up with the (very long) thread there, and the majority of it doesn't fall into either of those camps.

I did say I won't go on about this, though, and I think I've made my points, so I'll keep away from the thread now.

Dark Soldier

There's some nuance in the rllmuk thread, but I guess we're reading it differently.

GooberTheHat

JonB wrote:

GooberTheHat wrote:

JonB wrote:

Paul the sparky wrote:

It's also a reasonable ask to let someone enjoy the game without labeling them as anti trans, which is what's happening at the minute

It depends who you ask. There's a wide range of opinions about it out there among those who are making a point of not buying it.

I'll make sure to remind my daughter she's a terf every time she plays the game.

Where the hell did that come from? Why did you quote me?

Your reply made it seem like you were open to the opinion that it was reasonable to label someone that plays and enjoys the game a transphobe. I was using hyperbole to show how extreme that opinion is.

Paul the sparky

JonB wrote:

Paul the sparky wrote:

It's to clear up a bit of confusion, because it looked like you were saying that's an ok opinion to hold. When it's obviously not. And again, playing it doesn't automatically dismiss any of the issues around it. It's understandable that people are hurt and angry, but they need to think about where they're aiming that anger and not be fucking idiots about it

I don't agree with it, but I understand it. And understanding means not thinking someone's automatically a fucking idiot for lashing out. To me, your position is as reductive as the one you're railing against.

They're not fucking idiots for lashing out. By all means get angry, I understand that.

They're idiots for lashing out at the wrong people. Which I've said three times now and I'm not sure you're absorbing the point

acemuzzy

Paul the sparky wrote:

Playing the game isn't doing their cause any harm either, is it?

I guess this is the key question. And (again IMO) I agree each individual purchase is likely not causing much harm at all. But the argument seems to be:
- it's causing a teeny bit by adding to her wealth/reputation, which she's using to broadcast views that the trans community are against
- it's a missed opportunity to take a stance and show explicit allyship to that community
It's all decidedly marginal at most though, and there are other ways to show allyship which likely outweigh this, and all sorts of other things at play.

Paul the sparky wrote:

The people doing the trans cause the most harm are the dopey twats labeling and abusing people for playing a video game

Yeah, I agree that overstating the import of it risks being counterproductive!

acemuzzy

I guess there are similarities to personal responsibility like "you're causing climate change by eating a hamburger", and how individuals can affect systemic changes, which we've been round plenty of times before.

Paul the sparky

acemuzzy wrote:

I guess there are similarities to personal responsibility like "you're causing climate change by eating a hamburger", and how individuals can affect systemic changes, which we've been round plenty of times before.

The similarities are that people think me buying the game is somehow enabling trans hate etc. And if I didn't buy it (which is actually the case) that would somehow go away? Utter bollocks, demonstrably

ChopperByrne

It's not just about trans people wanting to be accepted for who they are though.

It's about laws being passed to compel people to agree that just on someone's say so, they should now be considered the opposite sex, and treated like they are that sex. Any objections are called bigoted, transphobic, and hateful.

In November 2020 TENI penned a letter calling people with objections far right, and called for them to lose legitimate political representation. This letter was signed by Amnesty Ireland, and the National Women's Council of Ireland, and many other NGOs.

https://twitter.com/TENI_Tweets/status/1329731266376298504?t=LsOs8WEbhRnHHx_Wim_pdw&s=19

The irony of removing political representation from people is just about the most fascist, far right thing you can do was lost on them.

The Rape Crisis Centre in Edinburgh was headed by a trans woman who said that any women in their services (literal rape victims) who objected to males being there needed to reframe their trauma.

You have changing rooms, and bathrooms being made uni-sex, when everyone can see how it's a safeguarding risk for women and children.

Maternity language being changed to use terms that dehumanise women.

Male crimes being recorded as female crimes.

Female sport being destroyed at all levels by allowing males to compete.

A woman who was raped on a hospital ward being gaslit by the hospital who said a rape couldn't have happened because it was a women's ward.

Self ID in the Western World is one of the biggest women's rights issues, and to suggest that anyone with legitimate concerns is just a TERF is a complete head in the sand mentality.

acemuzzy

Paul the sparky wrote:

acemuzzy wrote:

I guess there are similarities to personal responsibility like "you're causing climate change by eating a hamburger", and how individuals can affect systemic changes, which we've been round plenty of times before.

The similarities are that people think me buying the game is somehow enabling trans hate etc. And if I didn't buy it (which is actually the case) that would somehow go away? Utter bollocks, demonstrably

You're arguing against quite an extreme version of that view, though. I don't think anyone is sensibly claiming you singlehandedly have the power to change these things. But people collectively do, and there are a variety of ways you can contribute to those collective things, and decisions around this game offer minor examples of making marginal change in that regard. Probably very marginal, probably even negligible. But there's a while spectrum of assisting the trans cause, between those extremes, and this is a potential place to start. I don't think everyone making that point is a moron, even if some are.

Anyway, I'm gonna try and leave this discussion, I got other things to do.

acemuzzy

I totally also agree there are a few awkward aspects in this space, like the recent prison thing. And that it's rubbish when valuable debate falls into name-calling etc.

Paul the sparky

And I'm not responsible for what people collectively do. Clues in the name.

And the only morons are the ones hurling labels and abuse at the wrong people, like I have to repeat every couple of posts

Brooks

Knowing many trans people and observing the Krypton Factor of hoops they have to negotiate to get effective legal care, medical assistance, job security and beyond, I'm going to suggest no one undertakes a gender flip lightly and that the panic over threat to Spaces from a fraction of a percentage of very mild people is underinformed or actually psychotic.

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories