The Dark Knight Rises for the last time... (Spoilers as well if you like)
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I'll have to put up with taking it that Bruce just gets there because he's Batman. It's just a fairly big thing in my mind. It could have been covered by 10 seconds worth of footage of him stowing aboard a truck or something seeing as the film goes to lengths to demonstrate how isolated and clamped down the city has become because of Bane.
IT WOULD HAVE BEENNICE. -
Someone at work was on about that. ignoring the journey from the prison to the US, I said he'd get back into Gotham easy as there was 1 bridge left open and everyone was focussed on making sure no-one got off the island, rather than looking for people trying to get on it.
Also, he's Batman. -
Yeah you're probably both right.
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I saw this this evening (after watching Spider-man in the afternoon - it's been a good day).
It would be silly to be reading this thread if you haven't seen it, so excuse me for not fucking about with spoilers.
I massively enjoyed this. Â A combination of not being au fait with Batman lore, and probably being a bit dim sometimes, the Cotillard-is-the-baddy stuff took me by surprise. Â I didn't spot any issues with the Bane-is-the-kid ruse, so the reveal worked. Â Him not being head honcho worked for me, principally because his eyes acted everyone else off the screen at that point, and made it work. Â His voice is brilliant, f you had difficulty, you need to see a doctor. Â His death was too quick, I was expecting him to get up.
Joseph Gordon-Levitt or whatever his name is. Â Whoever asked if Nolan has a man-crush on him, you need to take note that Nolan uses the same actors more than mst directors. Â As for him being Robin, I thought it was blindingly obvious from about two seconds after he appeared on screen, but I didn't ave a problem with that.
Loved the Catwoman stuff, although I appreciate that the Catwoman/not-actually-Catwoman/actually-yeah-Catwoman/but-not is probably pulled from a comic, but still.
The plot is a hoot. Â Perfect for what the film is.
I suppose my only real issue is that given how gritty and uncomic like these films have been, Batman looks increasingly out of place. Â His costume is the most comic-camp of all camp comic costumes. Â In the big cop/thug rumble with Batman and Bane battering each other in the middle, I caught myself smirking at how Batman looked, and had to convince myself to stay with it. Â I think the Arkham games are a better example, in terms of artistic style, of how to go gritty without making Batman stick out like a sore thumb. Â Sorry if that sounds daft.
It's hard to say this without it sounding shallow, but it's a shame that this film franchise's best asset - Heath Ledger's Joker - couldn't be included.
Anyway, all told I loved it. -
I understand what you mean about the 'uncomic' nature of the films, they don't remind me of the Batman I grew up with - one whose world was gothic and slightly camp, but it's simply down to the fact that Nolan takes his stylistic cues from stuff like Year One, The Long Halloween and The Dark Knight series, all of which try and rationalise Batman somewhat.
In Begins and The Dark Knight characters actively acknowledge how ridiculous a man in a bat costume is, and even mock him. Rises never finds the time to do that, which probably causes that tonal issue that you noted.
After watching Begins again, my main issue with the series is with the lack of identity afforded to Gotham, a character in its own right in the Comics, and something that is talked about as a concept in the film at quite a length, is beautifully realised in Begins and slowly becomes homogenous through the sequels, not helped by shifting filming go Pittsburgh either I think. -
Burton's Gotham was moodier than Nolan's in some ways. -
I watched the first half of Burton's Batman last night. Difficult watching such a comic book/80/90's Batman.equinox_code "I need girls cornered and on their own"
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Nick wrote:Burton's Gotham was moodier than Nolan's in some ways.
Burton's Gotham was the comic book Gotham, Gothic, towering, full of character. Nolan just sticks it in Chicago, which works and then doesn't at times.
three1ne wrote:I watched the first half of Burton's Batman last night. Difficult watching such a comic book/80/90's Batman.
80s/90s as in film? Because Year One and stuff came out in the 80s. It is surprising how influential they were whilst the 90s still covered itself in spandex and lens flares. I'd really like them to do a film series of Hush next, if they go back to the franchise.
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That's what I meant Tempy, the constant rain, dark, steam and menacing architecture. A distictly 50s vibe to it I remember thinking, perhaps because it's based off the early comics?
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Matthew Modine's non-entity of a character does make a joke about his costume when they're chasing him.Tempy wrote:Rises never finds the time to do that
Tempy wrote:the lack of identity afforded to Gotham
I read an interview with Nolan where he said he wanted Gotham to be like the portrayal of Baltimore in 'The Wire'. Yeah that didn't work out so successfully, ambitious mind. -
I did enjoy Gotham under snow in this one, though it's a shame more wasn't made of that beyond a frozen no man's land.
"DEATH...by exile".
I don't know, people accuse the film of having no humour, but I found all the court stuff to be pretty hilarious. I did suspect Crane was the judge in the initial scene, as you could see him in the background with the distinctive glasses and hair. -
Yeah, I actually knew about that scene prior due to Internet spoilers, so I was CRANING (lulz) my neck to check and it definitely looked like Murphy off in the distance
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cant quote on my phone. Re: @Wander 'Nolan wanting Gotham to be like Baltimore'. Id have to say that the city of gotham has always worked up to a point for each individual film although collectively there has been no continuity. BB was very comic, book almost noir, with its big above ground railcars. TDK went for a modern city and DKR simply appeared to be saying "fuck it, its New York"equinox_code "I need girls cornered and on their own"
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Okay - so Batman is clearly alive at the end, right? There's so many ways that sequence in Florence could have been done to suggest he wasn't - it could have cut with Alfred's reaction, or shown Selina and the back of someone else, but it's clearly BW.Â
Also, let's not forget, this is a DC major hero who isn't going to be killed off, and that kids still see this etc.Â
Anyway, the reason I say so is because a friend of a friend is claiming he's totally dead at the end and I'm calling billy bullshit. -
Mystery solved.
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Also the Bat survives*, so unless it is immune to nuclear bombs then it is likely he got away.
*may remember this wrong -
Listened to the Kermode review this morning, and he reckons it's as open to interpretation as the end of Inception. Â While I don't think it's nearly ambiguous enough, you could argue that he's seeing what he wants to see. Â Is Bruce Wayne any more real there than Ra's al Ghul when Bruce Wayne sees him?
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It's the Selina Kyle aspect - does Alfred even know who she is?
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Yeah, he sees her when Bruce does his sleuthing, but they only meet in the scene at Wayne Manor and it is only fleeting, so that's what grounds it for me.
I work 15 minutes away from Wollaton hall too, AKA Wayne Manor. That shot that points down the hill that it is on made me chuckle as I used to fly kites there/roll down it and get covered in Rabbit poo. -
Yes. Â Bruce shows him her profile on the Batcave computer. Â Also, he speaks directly to her at the start of the film when he tells her to take the tray to the east wing.
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As Regmcfly says, its Batman. I wouldnt be surprised if Warners/DC has it in Nolan's contract that Batman/Wayne isnt allowed to be killed. The plot isnt concise enough to put any real weight behind the ending being in Alfred's imagination.equinox_code "I need girls cornered and on their own"
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As I remember, DC have some agreement that in comic crossovers Batman can't lose fights.
I need to rewatch Begins at some point to see if I still like it enough to rate it above Rises. A friend was giving good arguments last night as to why Begins in comparison with the last two feels like a different film. The CG Gotham is pretty shocking for sure. -
Why would Alfred imagine Hathaway on a date with Bruce though? He'd fucked off ages before. Also why would lucious fox have the scene about the re rigged auto pilot? It would be odd to have two people hallucinating Bruce could be alive. Also Alf made the back of.the head error earlier so it would be nonsense to do it again and smile about the situation.
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It was Fox that found out that the Bat had an autopilot thought wasn't it? Â Was Alfred supposed to have imagined that bit?
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For the record I'm playing Devil's advocate here, but...
The earlier mistake is just that, the thing we all do where we wish so hard we could see someone, we mistakenly think anyone half-like them could be them. Â Alfred is clearly hoping that's Bruce, and as soon as he turns his head, he sees it isn't. Â No hallucination, no dream. Â The smile is because that's exactly how he describes his wish. Â If he's dreaming, why can't it be Selina? Â He commented earlier - albeit jokingly - that Bruce and Selina should hook up.
As for Fox, he's not hallucinating. Â The auto-pilot has been fixed. Â That doesn't conclusively say that Bruce is alive.
Like I say, I'm playing Devil's advocate here. Â I think Wayne is alive at the end, and although I think dead Wayne is a better ending (and doesn't piss on Michael Caine's fine graveside performance) it made me smile. -
What I meant was you have two people who had some hope that Bruce was not dead even though it was near as dammit certain he was inside a nuclear bomb blast.
If it was just Alfred who saw Bruce you could argue as he's just mental now (wouldn't explain the catwoman date given that Alf would never have seen them together - although adkm makes a point I hadn't remembered)
Also the pearls are missing at the end too (either cat or bat could've got em more likely bats though)
i think because there are many ittle bits that suggest Bruce is not dead (restored batman logo on lamp) its odd to then think the opposite.
Alternatively he could have set a series of people to leave clues that he was alive to perpetuate the notion batman was alive thus keeping the batman as a symbol of hope alive. leaving an easy door for robin/newbatman to swoop in uninterrupted.
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Whilst I do think he is alive at the end, it would make more sense for him to have died. I doubt he would have put his trust in the auto-pilot considering what he was dealing with.
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