Zelda - The Bear and Badger

tin_robot

I have mixed feelings based on the trailer. It looks like more of the same - but it also made me realise how much I'd missed it, despite all the look-alikes since BotW was released. So perhaps "more of the same" is plenty.

DrewMerson

[Deleted User]

The only other (main console) direct sequels like this were OOT -> MM: that had a 1 year turnaround.

Based on the trailers, I can see the whole 'dlc thing', but they must be keeping an awful lot back after 5/6 years of dev time.. or their focus may be split on a launch window Zelda for the SwitchDos..dun dun dun.

Blue Swirl

Bob wrote:

He suggesting they're hardware is holding them back.. You're both making the same point. Nothing to see here.

MattyJ wrote:

He's saying if Nintendo released a PS5/Series X equivalent rather than choosing to actively produce a less powerful matching then these games would look incredible

Oh, I see. I'm perfectly happy with the Switch and how games look on them. There's more to how good things look than raw horse power. Art direction, for example, and a stable known hardware base to work from. I'd be quite happy if Nintendo kept the Switch going for another five years. (Though I wouldn't begrudge them a Switch 2 at the same time.) I think it was 14 years from the first to last Neo Geo AES cart, and the difference in graphics from start to end is night and day. We already have two consoles with a focus on raw number crunching, we don't need a third. There's room in the world of video games for more than one approach to hardware. There's also more to making a game fun than throwing more pixels and polys at the player. Currently I'm really digging Chained Echoes and that could probably run on a SNES with a big enough cart. I don't find myself thinking "If this had more polygons in it, I'd been having measurably more fun."

Moot_Geeza

But...how many games on Switch are developed with this 'stable and familiar hw, art direction is paramount' philosophy? I'll pluck a percentage out of my arse....10%? The rest are ports that either run well because they're simplistic anyway, miracle ports that manage to look good and run nicely in spite of the hardware, or as is often the case these days, mashup conversions with low res visuals and choppy framerates. Five more years of the gap widening for indies? No thank you. Plus Nintendo can't always get their own games running well - how many stability patches has the most recent Pokemon game had?

I don't need Ray Tracing, 4K and the rest of it. I don't even need 1080p undocked, but I would like to buy a new release £12 indie that runs the way it does on other consoles. To play in handheld mode, obviously. The Switch isn't just old, it's ancient - even if a successor had base PS4 level grunt devs would breathe a sigh of relief.

EvilRedEye

It depends what you're doing with the Switch really. Using it in portable mode is a different proposition to using it on a 4K TV where anything under 1080p produces a very soft-looking image, HDR capability is badly missed and, depending on your TV, 30Hz looks like a slideshow. I've seen a few people mention poorly performing cross-platform games on here as well, which suggests it's maybe getting difficult to optimise games targeting the new machines down to Switch.

I don't particularly want Nintendo to produce a PS5 but with Nvidia as a supplier they should be able to produce something with enough oomph to produce an image somewhat exceeding 1080p in resolution and top it up to 4K with a budget-focused implementation of DLSS.

acemuzzy

Moot_Geeza wrote:

But...how many games on Switch are developed with this 'stable and familiar hw, art direction is paramount' philosophy? I'll pluck a percentage out of my arse....10%? The rest are ports that either run well because they're simplistic anyway, miracle ports that manage to look good and run nicely in spite of the hardware, or as is often the case these days, mashup conversions with low res visuals and choppy framerates. Five more years of the gap widening for indies? No thank you. Plus Nintendo can't always get their own games running well - how many stability patches has the most recent Pokemon game had?

I don't need Ray Tracing, 4K and the rest of it. I don't even need 1080p undocked, but I would like to buy a new release £12 indie that runs the way it does on other consoles. To play in handheld mode, obviously. The Switch isn't just old, it's ancient - even if a successor had base PS4 level grunt devs would breathe a sigh of relief.

It's like your posting that from on top of an actual soapbox

Blue Swirl

All true, but you can pluck the same number out of the air for the Xbox Series and PS5. How many of those are created with any care, or are just shovelware designed to jump on the latest bandwagon? The rule of thumb that 90% of something is shit applies to everything, not just the Switch. So many titles are still released on PS4 and Xbox One anyway, so are the latest and greatest being used to their full extent?

"It needs to be more powerful to make things easier for developers" is true, but it's a never ending argument. They're always going to end up butting their heads against the power cap.

It is a little ironic that we're arguing that the Switch needs to be put out to pasture, while half my friends list plays Metroid Prime, which looked amazing on the GameCube.

Moot_Geeza

I wasn't saying 90% of games on Switch are shit, I was saying 90% of games on Switch are developed with more powerful hardware in mind, then potentially nerfed in the porting process. I'm not talking bleeding edge stuff either - far from it, just standard indie fare circa 2023.

Edit: Maybe not 90%, there are plenty of mobile ports on the EShop. Revised guess: 79%

Bob

I'd say the percentage on switch is even higher than 90%. The store is just rammed with shit.

retroking1981

I think Nintendo are just struggling with modern development.

How long has it been since GTAV now? That's just an example off the top of my head, but I think the days of single studios pushing out multiple high end games per gen are basically at an end.

This is more damaging for Nintendo than MS/Sony as they've basically been one of two or three strong developers for each of their systems since the N64 days.

b0r1s

I get Moot’s point. We aren’t talking a massive spec bump here at this stage. I’m sure they will continue to get as much out of this gen as possible but apart from the big Ninty releases I don’t tofu the switch now. Obviously I’ve got the luxury of a steam deck but even without it I just don’t think I’d bother with anything other than Zelda, Mario and Metroid on the switch now.

DrewMerson

Moot_Geeza

Are they keeping affordability in mind though? Or could they just not feasibly charge more for the chipset the Switch is still rolling with?

Syph79

Ordered from The Game Collection for £44, using a few points to get the extra quids off. The countdown begins.

b0r1s

I would never consider Nintendo as a company that gives the slightest shit to affordability. They are definitely up with Sony in trying to squeeze as much as they can from their fan base.

DrewMerson

EvilRedEye

b0r1s wrote:

I would never consider Nintendo as a company that gives the slightest shit to affordability. They are definitely up with Sony in trying to squeeze as much as they can from their fan base.

It's an interesting one to ponder IMO. They're clearly out to make £££ from TotK and the stuff they aim at the traditional gamer market like Fire Emblem and Xenoblade always get season passes for additional revenue. But I do think when they're pondering the RRP for the Switch 2 and the standard RRP for the games, they're at least gonna think about whether the average parent is gonna be able to afford the console and at least 1-2 games a year for l'il Bobby. And it might be they up prices next gen anyway but I do think they'll have at least thought long and hard about it before doing it.

Moot_Geeza

I don't suppose they'd ever go BIG with their HW pricing, but that's due to wanting to shift more units than legit family friendliness surely?

Edit: hadn't refreshed the page for a while.

b0r1s

@DrewMerson yeah I’d say they dropped out of the tech spec race with the Wii and decided not to bother trying to catch up. It’s not a bad move especially when your aesthetic of your big hitters works well with simpler graphics. The issue is still around the third party ports. Will be interesting to see where they sit the switch 2 and to see if it can at least get near the Series S, which will be lower console for the third party stuff. If it doesn’t it could start to head back to the GameCube days of less 3rd party games.

DrewMerson

stellavista

Seems like Nintendo decided to go dark on it also until release day so you should be fine.

Moot_Geeza

I probably was a bit soapboxy about this earlier but I'm drunk now so I've mellowed. It's a shame the Switch can't quite keep pace with indies anyway.

yourfavouriteuncle

Moot_Geeza wrote:

I probably was a bit soapboxy about this earlier but I'm drunk now so I've mellowed. It's a shame the Switch can't quite keep pace with indies anyway.

Far from it. As per, you made total sense. You, nick and DS being my solid men of the forum.

Moot_Geeza

Bob

yourfavouriteuncle wrote:

Moot_Geeza wrote:

I probably was a bit soapboxy about this earlier but I'm drunk now so I've mellowed. It's a shame the Switch can't quite keep pace with indies anyway.

Far from it. As per, you made total sense. You, nick and DS being my solid men of the forum.

Don’t leave me hanging

Bob

Go dark on this mutha fuckers !

https://www.eurogamer.net/looks-like-the-legend-of-zelda-tears-of-the-kingdom-may-be-nintendos-largest-first-party-switch-game

hylian_elf

Yep. Gonna try.

Saw a Nintendo Facebook post I wish I hadn’t. Didn’t spoil anything major, nonetheless it’s one less thing for me to find and see for myself.

SpaceGazelle

indigoDos wrote:

The only other (main console) direct sequels like this were OOT -> MM: that had a 1 year turnaround. Based on the trailers, I can see the whole 'dlc thing', but they must be keeping an awful lot back after 5/6 years of dev time..

Yes. They don't really need to sell it so they'll be keeping it spoiler tight. I have a feeling it'll have a very different feel to the first one. I'd like to see dungeons.

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