Current Affairs - The Bear and Badger

djchump

nick_md wrote:

Okay that's a fair point, will anything change your mind?

Counter-evidence. Proof, innit.

Do you have links to details showing that the convoy from Russia wasn't transporting the Buk?
What evidence is there that the missile that downed the plane wasn't the one from the 53rd AA brigade? What was it, where was it from, how did it get there?

RedDave2

The standard for proof on this forum is really high. Many international organisations could follow our standards.

WorKid

I just skimmed this. Did Morgan Freeman blow job a plane?

GooberTheHat

No, it was Sam Jackson you racist.

[Deleted User]

lol

djchump

There was some snakes on it, so he shouted swears at it.

Diluted Dante

No, that's Captain String.

Plane, Captain, this stuff is obvious.

g.man

Mothafuckin' Captain String!

Kow

Irish badgers, get the fuck out there and vote yes. No fucking excuses. If no wins this then Ireland is condemned to stay in the middle ages as a backwards bog jumping shithole.

Vela

I know why everyone can vote since its in the constitution, but there is no reason men should be voting in this.

Kow

Nobody at all should be voting as it should just be allowed by normal civilised government. But in the event, men should indeed be voting.

RedDave2

Vela wrote:

I know why everyone can vote since its in the constitution, but there is no reason men should be voting in this.

Go on so. enlighten me why a major aspect of society should only be voted on by half? (Voting yes by the way)

Yossarian

The #hometovote hash tag on Twitter is pretty inspiring.

Kow

It's true that the final decision on whether a woman has an abortion or not is the woman's. But men are absolutely a part of that decision making process and a part of making sure it's legalised too.

Vela

RedDave2 wrote:

Vela wrote:

I know why everyone can vote since its in the constitution, but there is no reason men should be voting in this.

Go on so. enlighten me why a major aspect of society should only be voted on by half? (Voting yes by the way)

Because its the half of society who will have the potential to experience the event.

Rights shouldnt be subject to votes, but in cases where they are its a bit perverse to have the rights voted upon by parties who dont have skin in the game.

Like the same sex marriage survey Australia just had, it was as if the rest of the country had final say over whether LGBTI people were considered equal. That doesnt sit right with me.

Kow

So you'd have to publicly declare yourself gay to get a vote? That seems a bit unfair.

Kow

Also, while the physical process of an abortion may be entirely the woman's, the whole idea of deciding if it's necessary and deciding on the life of a potential child is down to the couple in many cases. Not all abortions arise out of drunken one night stands.

Yossarian

The pre-edit version was more amusing in its inappropriateness:

Kow wrote:

Also, while the physical process of an apron may be entirely the woman's.

Kow

Fuck sake. I considered leaving it. That was the 1970s Irish referendum.

[Deleted User]

I think saying it should only be a woman's vote ignores the "No" side's arguments. If they are going to do that then there isn't a lot of point in having a referendum, may and we'll just pass the "Yes" law.
If they were to only open the vote to women it wouldn't end the debate.

Diluted Dante

It shouldn't be subject to a vote at all, it should just happen, but that's the stupidity of the constitution.

Kow

There shouldn't be a referendum on this any more than there should be one on letting women vote. It's already permitted by European law, which should be automatically adopted, without all this bullshit.

Vela

Actually, hold on a moment, Ive rethought this a bit. My original view is ignorant of context.

If you are a man inclined to vote yes: You should vote, because what you are doing is saying that women should be able to choose.

If you are a man inclined to vote no: Your vote is intended to limit the rights of a woman to choose, by removing the option of abortion or maintaining the current ban.

More simply, I dont think it is the business of one group to make decisions for other groups. But in the event that it comes to a vote then the pragmatics take over.

Diluted Dante

Reading the #repealthe 8th and #hometovote stuff is uplifting. I just hope there are enough of these people to make sure it happens.

[Deleted User]

Diluted Dante wrote:

It shouldn't be subject to a vote at all, it should just happen, but that's the stupidity of the constitution.

Kow wrote:

There shouldn't be a referendum on this any more than there should be one on letting women vote. It's already permitted by European law, which should be automatically adopted, without all this bullshit.

Totally agree, but here we are.

[Deleted User]

Vela wrote:

If you are a man inclined to vote no: Your vote is intended to limit the rights of a woman to choose, by removing the option of abortion or maintaining the current ban.

I'm not sure that is the angle "No" voters are coming from. Their intentions are saving babies from being murdered, gender doesn't come into their argument.

Just to clarify I would very much vote Yes if I was Irish and don't agree with No arguments.

Diluted Dante

Intention: saving babies from being murdered

Reality: Babies are murdered in England instead.

RedDave2

Liveinadive wrote:

Vela wrote:

If you are a man inclined to vote no: Your vote is intended to limit the rights of a woman to choose, by removing the option of abortion or maintaining the current ban.

I'm not sure that is the angle "No" voters are coming from. Their intentions are saving babies from being murdered, gender doesn't come into their argument. Just to clarify I would very much vote Yes if I was Irish and don't agree with No arguments.

This. There's very much a story being put to this that the yes vote is for woman and the no vote is the patriarchy / church. I'm sure that is a part of the no vote but my sister is neither religious nor a man and she has decided to vote no. The breakdown on voters is roughly in the yes camp 55% woman, 45% Men and in the No camp 45% woman, 55% men. The idea that it is about limiting choice ignores the view on the no side that they feel it isnt a choice to be made at all.

Diluted Dante

Out of interest, what is her reasoning for voting no?

Vela

RedDave2 wrote:

The idea that it is about limiting choice ignores the view on the no side that they feel it isnt a choice to be made at all.

I'm not using the word choice in the form of the normal argument here (pro voice/pro life).

I mean choice as in the ability to decide to do something.

The no vote is simply saying "no, you cannot choose to do that".

This still leaves ample room for the "no" voters to define why they feel its important.

Howdy, Stranger!

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