Current Affairs - The Bear and Badger

Gremill

djchump wrote:

Because we all want a week away in the axis of evil?

Trump will be planning a package tour on a cruise liner visiting ports in NK, Syria, Iran and Iraq.

Yossarian

Kim had already agreed to work towards denuclearisation with South Korea.

djchump

But this time he pinkie-sweared it.

Yossarian

Here’s a few other examples of similar commitments through the decades:

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-06-11/a-rough-guide-to-north-korea-s-many-promises-to-abandon-nukes

Roujin

Whaddap dudes it's me, ya boi Rouj wo th a red hot take.

KJU is fat, but not stupid. I'm sure remembers how well disarmament worked for Gadaffi. He gave his weapons up, got a nice hug from the world leaders and everyone promised to be great friends and forget the tyrannical parts of his regime. Then when the libyan people revolted we all just sat around and were like "Yeah you were kind of a douchebag to your people Gadaffi, they have a point...sorry...no, no none of us are free right now to help you remove that bayonet from your arsehole, I'm sure someone dragging you through the streets will see sense and let you go any second...okay bye bye now, have a nice day and thanks for all the trade."

If North Korea are actually going to disarm themselves, then it will be interesting because Kim is a guy that killed his own uncle, reportedly using a flamethrower. He's only going to do it if its extremely worth his while and if he gets absolute protection from his own people.

poprock

There’s a strong possibility that Kim’s delusional though. I mean, he is psychopathic.

[Deleted User]

Depends if he can play it as a great and noble choice for the people of NK.

That's why I feel this was a business deal, if he can get some money back into the country he can avoid the public beheading. Does Trump do any kind of deal that isn't a business deal? He acts like CEO of America.

Unlikely

The Guardian wrote:

In an interview in Singapore with ABC News, Trump asserts that his deal with Kim means that Kim is “de-nuking the whole place.”
That understanding seems to go beyond the language of the signed agreement which was “the DPRK commits to work towards complete denuclearisation of the Korean Peninsula.”
Here’s part of Trump’s exchange with George Stephanopoulos of ABC News:
Stephanopoulos: They’ve got to get rid of all their nuclear weapons?
Trump: They will. I really believe that he will. I’ve gotten to know him well over a short period of time.
Stephanopoulos: Did he tell you that?
Trump: Yeah, sure. It’s de-nuking, I mean he’s de-nuking the whooole, place, and he’s going to start very quickly, I think he’s going to start now.

lol yeah he's just heading straight home to throw all his nukes in the bin then he'll phone you and say "DONE IT" all pleased and proud like a child successfully reporting a solo shit in the toilet seeking approval from a parent.

davyK

Roujin wrote:

Kim is a guy that killed his own uncle, reportedly using a flamethrower.

I thought he tied him to the front of a cannon and shot a shell out of it. Or was that a different family member?

GooberTheHat

davyK wrote:

Roujin wrote:

Kim is a guy that killed his own uncle, reportedly using a flamethrower.

I thought he tied him to the front of a cannon and shot a shell out of it. Or was that a different family member?

He did one with an anti aircraft gun, and another with nerve agent, so it wouldn't surprise me.

nick_md

What does everyone think about Trump's comment re. letting Russia back into the G7/8? Weirdly I found myself thinking it wasn't such a crazy notion, simply because, you need the enemy at the table to negotiate. Is that a crazy thought? I'm kinda freaked out by thinking I may agree with something Trump said, but if relations / things are to improve with Putin's Russia, surely we need to engage and talk, rather then shut out?

hunk

Your assumption is absolutely logical but it could also be Trump is trying to help Putin because....you know that collusion rumor might be true? Trump trying to help Putin because Putin helped him in the saddle.

But yeah, eventually the g7 will have to deal with Putin. Ignoring him is not an option.

nick_md

Aye I'm not really saying Trump's doing it for the right reasons, more that I don't think it's a batshit crazy idea. You have to sit down with your enemy, right? Otherwise, what?

hunk

Dealing with Trump and Putin is tricky business as they don't adhere to normal diplomacy.
But yeah, you can't really ignore them.

Yossarian

I think there’s a big difference between sitting down with your enemies and handing them one of the most prominent and powerful roles in geopolitics.

nick_md

Yossarian wrote:

I think there’s a big difference between sitting down with your enemies and handing them one of the most prominent and powerful roles in geopolitics.

Is it better to exclude tho? I mean, what is the end result of that?

nick_md

I m not entrenched in my views btw, I want opinion.

Yossarian

nick_md wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

I think there’s a big difference between sitting down with your enemies and handing them one of the most prominent and powerful roles in geopolitics.

Is it better to exclude tho? I mean, what is the end result of that?

It’s probably better to use that as a negotiating chip, you know, you wind up the IRA and promise to stop fucking with our elections and then we’ll let you back in.

nick_md

At some point you have to let them back in tho, right? With things as they are currently, it seems like a good time.

GooberTheHat

hunk wrote:

Your assumption is absolutely logical but it could also be Trump is trying to help Putin because....you know that collusion rumor might be true? Trump trying to help Putin because Putin helped him in the saddle.

But yeah, eventually the g7 will have to deal with Putin. Ignoring him is not an option.

Considering that the G7 is predominantly an economic forum, Russia aren't even a top ten global economy, so there is absolutely no reason why they should be guaranteed a place at the table. Especially considering their actions recently.

nick_md

Will things improve without them there, is my point.

GooberTheHat

In what regard? It's an economic forum.

nick_md

I'm sure I have a rep as a russophile, but I probably have the same reservations as y'all. I'm just thinking that if we want things to get better we need more open discussions.

nick_md

GooberTheHat wrote:

In what regard? It's an economic forum.

I dunno mate, I'm happy to be told why it's a bad idea.

GooberTheHat

Absolutely, but Russia have no place at the G7 (G8) because they are not an economic power. China, Brazil and India deserve a place at the table before them.

nick_md

Why were they there before Crimea? Just seems like we're pushing them further away when I'd quite like to not die in a nuclear holocaust so hey let's open dialogue.

Yossarian

nick_md wrote:

At some point you have to let them back in tho, right? With things as they are currently, it seems like a good time.

Unless you believe that everything that Russia has been accused of over the past few years has been made up, I don’t really see how Russia can be considered as anything other than a hostile power right now. Surely the first step towards cooperation should be stopping the hostility, no?

GooberTheHat

There's not going to be a nuclear holocaust, at least not with Russia. It serves nobodies interests.

nick_md

Aiight, let's keep them isolated. That'll help things.

GooberTheHat

Yossarian wrote:

nick_md wrote:

At some point you have to let them back in tho, right? With things as they are currently, it seems like a good time.

Unless you believe that everything that Russia has been accused of over the past few years has been made up, I don’t really see how Russia can be considered as anything other than a hostile power right now. Surely the first step towards cooperation should be stopping the hostility, no?

Agreed, you can't reward their actions by giving them what they want. What concessions have they made to deserve consideration of being readmitted?

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