Current Affairs
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Seems a bit like negotiating with terrorists to me.
Being the “first sitting US president to do thing X” isn’t necessarily a good thing, as you have to wonder why all the others didn’t do that thing.
But sure, if it’s a step towards “denuking” (as Trump puts it), then that (in isolation of the legitimising KJU and turning a blind eye to the terrible things the NK leadership have done and still do) would be a good thing.
I just don’t believe it is, because all the wording I’ve seen so far is “work towards a...”, “establish a joint set of goals for ...” kind of rhetoric. It hasn’t been anything like “we will decommission X of our nuclear stockpile by 2020” - but please correct me if I’m wrong on that, I’d like some good news. -
It reflects even worse on don if you see it as a toothless photo op as well, because he ditched out of the G7 meet a day early to go and fluff his ego and play the “Obama couldn’t get this deal done!” card. His petulance and inexperience is making him screw over his allies. Well, it’s either his character flaws or Putin.
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The power of a sex tape. Mover of mountains. -
djchump wrote:Seems a bit like negotiating with terrorists to me.
Being the “first sitting US president to do thing X” isn’t necessarily a good thing, as you have to wonder why all the others didn’t do that thing.
But sure, if it’s a step towards “denuking” (as Trump puts it), then that (in isolation of the legitimising KJU and turning a blind eye to the terrible things the NK leadership have done and still do) would be a good thing.
I just don’t believe it is, because all the wording I’ve seen so far is “work towards a...”, “establish a joint set of goals for ...” kind of rhetoric. It hasn’t been anything like “we will decommission X of our nuclear stockpile by 2020” - but please correct me if I’m wrong on that, I’d like some good news.
The whole negotiating with terrorists thing is a fucking cliché, man. Is it your position then that Itshak Rabin did a bad thing negotiating with Arafat and the PLO? Did Major make a mistake agreeing to talk to the IRA
It feels like anti-trump people are simply desperate to hand wave this away. Like Brexit voters refusing to see the whole thing will hurt them and most of the people they know, it's simply dissonance.
Or you can be like me and see that even uterrly rubbish people have their uses. Mad dog theory of IR become flesh, it's Donald trump. And they sure used it!
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I don't see it as a bad think talking to north Korea, I just don't see what Trump has achieved.
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Negotiating with terrorists is in practice usually the best thing you can do once you've convinced stakeholder X to get their head out their ass about it.
Trump is bad at negotiating, but insofar as both these dudes just seem up for constant praise however that gets generated, well, I hope everyone else can make the most of this shitty clock being right twice a day. -
Aye, I know the analogy isn't great, especially as NK hadn't actively done anything to terrorise the US or UK (so there isn't that skin in the game), mostly just their own people - it's just a gut instinct take, hence the "seems".legaldinho wrote:The whole negotiating with terrorists thing is a fucking cliché, man. Is it your position then that Itshak Rabin did a bad thing negotiating with Arafat and the PLO? Did Major make a mistake agreeing to talk to the IRA
My main concern being it reinforces the concept that having nukes and WMD gets you access to the big leagues, so every shitbag is going to want to get their hands on the big guns.legaldinho wrote:It feels like anti-trump people are simply desperate to hand wave this away.
Sure, there's probably a lot of that in my cynicism that this will amount to anything beyond Trump trying to swoop in for the photo op and steal Moon's plaudits - remember when Trump was twitter ranting at KJU, and cancelled the summit? He sure didn't seem very invested, but no doubt his supporters would put that down as his deal-making expertise and 4D chess skills.
But, you know, if down the road it does turn out that KJU is sincere and does "denuke", then I'd happily give some of the credit for that to Trump, but the majority still to Moon.legaldinho wrote:Like Brexit voters refusing to see the whole thing will hurt them and most of the people they know, it's simply dissonance. Or you can be like me and see that even uterrly rubbish people have their uses. Mad dog theory of IR become flesh, it's Donald trump. And they sure used it!
Time will tell. I'm happy to eat crow about it if it means there's less nukes in the world. -
To some extent they've lucked out by running into the one American chief who would mostly be satisfied by being very publicly present to sign shit alone.
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Yeah, he has a point about these kind of contracts but equally 5 years is a very short time window if you were a business looking to make an expansion. Maybe a middle ground of 15 to 20 years might work but you would still have the problem of the deal becoming somewhat of a dead duck once you get within the time window.SFV - reddave360
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legaldinho wrote:Unlikely wrote:Amazing, to the apparent surprise of the rest of the world, including the US itself, Trump has agreed to end the joint military exercises it conducts with South Korea, in exchange for absolutely nothing! The Art of the Deal!
In exchange for a commitment towards nuclear disarmament.
It's a remarkable a achievement if it goes to fruition, actually. Stunning.
Let's give the man his due.
He was always going to be good at this kind of thing. Two men, both powerful and chidish and in power by accident and out of their depth. Of course they were going to find some common ground. Sometimes it's just a matter of playground dynamics, maybe usually. It's probably true only Trump could do this, and that's not necessarily a dig. -
But he's done nothing. It's all hot air and bluster, but their is no substance in any of it. -
Worth remembering that there wasn't necessarily much in the way of worry about nuclear conflict with NK before Trump took the hot seat and started mouthing off. He wants to convince us that he's playing the firefighter here whilst conveniently overlooking that he was also the arsonist.
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GooberTheHat wrote:But he's done nothing. It's all hot air and bluster, but their is no substance in any of it.
He's said "Hi". Nobody else did. -
There have been treaties in the past, so someone has.
He also said Kim Jong un is a great man that loves his country and people. This is a man that brutalises his own people relentlessly to keep them oppressed. -
SpaceGazelle wrote:legaldinho wrote:Unlikely wrote:Amazing, to the apparent surprise of the rest of the world, including the US itself, Trump has agreed to end the joint military exercises it conducts with South Korea, in exchange for absolutely nothing! The Art of the Deal!
In exchange for a commitment towards nuclear disarmament.
It's a remarkable a achievement if it goes to fruition, actually. Stunning.
Let's give the man his due.
He was always going to be good at this kind of thing. Two men, both powerful and chidish and in power by accident and out of their depth. Of course they were going to find some common ground. Sometimes it's just a matter of playground dynamics, maybe usually. It's probably true only Trump could do this, and that's not necessarily a dig.
He is only good at one thing - being a mad dog. Look up mad dog theory of international relations /Nixon era games. This time they didn't need to pretend. -
I never really watch American wrestling but I promise to catch up. Sounds awesome.
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New article. Can't remember where we were at re the source....
http://time.com/5311175/sarin-chlorine-syria-chemical-attack-opcw/?xid=time_socialflow_twitter&utm_campaign=time&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com
Over to you Gonzo and gurt.
I'm still great and you still love it. -
The OPCW can't be trusted and it was probably Saudi funded terrorist that have been smuggled in sarin that perfectly matches the chemical signature of the sarin produced by the Assad regime by the CIA and MI6 and was used to convince the world that Assad is a bad man.
That about right? -
Why are you preempting what I might say? You are coming across as shrill itt.
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There is a possibility that Kim Jong Un is a closet progressive (it's relative). Maybe he believes that in order to cement his position he needs some widespread prosperity - and maybe some genuine popularity - and in order to get some sanctions lifted he is starting to wind the NK neck in.
The nuclear programme costs must be crippling and involve terrifying levels of risk that cannot be geographically isolated and thus are a threat to him personally. So ditching that while saving face could be the aim.
The visit to the South and the Winter Olympics could be evidence of an overture toward a thaw.
In other words, this has fuck all to do with Trump Clown.
It isn't beyond the realms of possibility. It has happened before in the late 80s. An imploding USSR did something similar.Holding the wrong end of the stick since 2009. -
djchump wrote:Defensive much?
What about? I've never said the OPCW can't be trusted. Why should I debate anyone who strawmans so hard?
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Jesus boys. I was joking about where we were up to.
Since the last time I've actually listened to more of that moderate rebels pod and a number of things posted.
Still in no position to make judgement calls, but interested.
Play nice. Please.
I'm still great and you still love it. -
This is a great step forward. Trump is still a cunt. Easy. -
Trump seems to have dangled loads of money in front of Kim on the condition he give up nukes. The money will prop up his regime and cause more misery for the North Koreans for decades more and probably enrich Trump later down the line. But it’s probably the only way of moving the situation forward. Get them there first, then push for the next thing. It takes a cunt to make a deal like that and Trump stepped up. The signed agreement means nothing to either side.
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legaldinho wrote:Why are you preempting what I might say? You are coming across as shrill itt.
It was a joke sweat heart. Don't get upset.
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Such sad news about the Mackintosh Building at the Glasgow School of Art. Up in flames, again. Fuck.
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