Yes operands are the fucking numbers. I was just being a funny twat by insisting you refer to them as operands rather than numbers. Although operands is the correct term, if you're just referring to numbers, then there's really no issue in just calling them numbers. 

I really thought everyone would know what an operand was.

Using maths I actually a really advanced programming skill, you won't be needing it for years if ever.

Also, me am confused easily with clever terms. Let's stick to numbers and plus signs.

I've been programming for yonks, and the only times I've used maths are for fun, for 3d games shizzle, and for gambling algorithms. Avoid those and you'll be fine.

fienaly! pplz can tork programmingz liek ekwal

TBH, the more I'm thinking about this, the more I'm feeling like my goal isn't to be employed, but rather to get myself into a position where I can work for myself.

App development seems to be what's appealing to me. If I do learn to code, then me and my brother have all the necessary skills to start an indie games company.

superflyninja wrote:

Sorry to pour any dourness on things but learning to code is fine and dandy. Getting a job out of it though is much tougher. Now things may be different in the UK but in Ireland I've found it virtually impossible to even get an interview for a junior dev position. I have a Bsc degree in computer science that centred around software engineering(admittedly qualified 10 years ago now) and more recently did the first year of a masters in the same area.(Plus I have a B in higher level maths and an A in higher level physics) Plus I've written and released some android apps that have netted around 10k downloads. Been applying for junior dev jobs for the past year and nothing. Not even an interview. ( I dont think the CV is a problem, been called to interview from different areas). From what I've been seeing is the companies over here are actively just looking for fresh graduates or recent grads with experience. But the common thread is a degree qualification is needed.....

You're an unusual case though Ninj... 

I do suspect your problem comes more down to your location than ability/suitability. You should try to apply for a job in London and see how far you get. Even if you can't physically make the interview, you can at least take that experience back to the places that are practical for you, and see what happens

Despite what AJ says, I think that getting a job as a coder is more difficult than he suggests. At least for the places I've interviewed for... I mean the larger enterprises will generally test you on the spot these days, and far fewer pass those spot assignments than who actually get invited along for an interview in the first place (and there's always at least two interviews).

And I've been privileged enough to see how good senior coders grade prospective applicants. I can only hope to be as thorough and as flexible as them if I'm ever in their shoes. This is all my experience, though I suspect that Ace will back me up on some of this stuff, because we did discuss it once briefly. His place also sounds quite flexible, but also rather stringent, if that makes sense.

Where I agree with AJ, is in how tough freelancing is, because if it was straightforward to do, I'd do it, because I suspect I'd be much happier working for myself. But freelancing in any field is just as stressful as working for a single employer...

What I'd ideally like to do is either conceive of an enterprise I can enjoy working on, and make it turn a profit, or get to call the technical (and/or creative) shots on an enterprise that someone else has conceived of, and I can enjoy working on (as a CTO).

But fuck...

If I'm doing any form of work and it's challenging and engaging enough, and I can make a living out of it, then I am very grateful.

This rant should probably be in the work thread.

I endorse each and every sentence of the above post.

You need to know what you're doing, and live where there's a lot of jobs, but coding is a very easy profession to get into. The hard bit is getting good at it.

I'd argue that getting a technology job is only hard if you're not naturally a technology person. It's a somewhat elitist field and we recognise each other relatively easily. I believe most professions are the same. It'd be nice if the world didn't work like that, but it does.

I'd be interested to know what that initial spot test was.

dynamiteReady wrote:

Yes, if you the have experience, ability and a good record, you will find more opportunities. [...] but you both failed to make this clear.

Perhaps because...

That's a universal fact in all career paths

I have, but they've always been piss easy - the toughest was "make Pong". Although it hasn't taken up the best part of any of the interviews; that's always been a chat to the CEO/ lead engineer/ whatever. Hell, most of them just ask for it to be emailed to them before the interview.

I'm wondering whether it was particularly tough (and what it was, if so, out of pure curiosity) or if there were just a lot of people applying for the job that didn't know what they were doing (a problem with a lot of the world 'cause of this "you can be anything you want to be" bollocks we give to kids - genetics exist and how you're brought up in your early years affects you a lot, too; it's stupid to pretend otherwise).

Eh?

dynamiteReady wrote:

but you both failed to make this clear.

Because it's completely unnecessary to do so.

coding is a very easy profession to get into... The hard bit is getting good at it.

architectural engineering/medicine/race driving is a very easy profession to get into... The hard bit is getting good at it.

Come on...

The statement I made doesn't apply to those fields. Maybe architectural engineering, I don't know enough about it. Medicine is hard to get good at, then relatively easy to find work in, but incredibly hard on a day to day basis. Race driving is extremely hard to get good at, extremely hard to find work in and extremely hard to stay in. So the point you're trying to make, that my statement was so broad as to be applicable to anything, is incorrect.

Anyways, coding know how puts you in a high demand, low supply workforce which is generally a beneficial place to be.

Bravo! I don't even know what calculus means.

If you live in or near London, and cannot get a job in either front end or back end development, you're doing it wrong.

I'm having to actually write python, as opposed to C. I miss you, curly brackets.