Climate change apathy Ragnarok thread
  • dynamiteReady
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    Yossarian wrote:
    No response to the referenced, scholarly article from a respected scientific journal explaining the likely cause of the pause?

    Here's another perspective. But seriously, my carbon footprint is very likely smaller than yours (and yours...), despite me having a car, so I won't be demonised.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/5067351/Rise-of-sea-levels-is-the-greatest-lie-ever-told.html
    "I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
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  • Yossarian
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    monkey wrote:
    We're all drawing out evidence from Google I presume anyway, a company known for intentionally corrupting its search results, with an opaque formula for producing them and that has given money to and lobbied politicians to deny climate change.

    They seem to have seen the light.
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  • The fixes are known and obvious. Decrease consumption, increase recycling, put limits on greenhouse gases, increase cleaner public transport, walk more, turn stuff off at night, invest in renewables. It's the unfortunate noise around the scientific methodology that prevents any of this stuff gaining traction. If the mindset of people changed overnight ,the solutions could start being implemented instantly. But businesses don't like it, and idiot voters don't like stuff like tax increases so there you go. Stasis.
  • Yossarian
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    Yossarian wrote:
    No response to the referenced, scholarly article from a respected scientific journal explaining the likely cause of the pause?
    Here's another perspective. But seriously, my carbon footprint is very likely smaller than yours (and yours...), despite me having a car, so I won't be demonised. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/5067351/Rise-of-sea-levels-is-the-greatest-lie-ever-told.html

    If only you'd do the slightest bit of research.

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921818106002049?via=ihub
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  • Yossarian
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    To be fair, you are doing the slightest bit of research. If only you'd do just slightly more.
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  • dynamiteReady
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    http://antigreen.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/the-latest-paper-from-swedish-sea-level.html

    See what I mean.

    This is a latter paper.

    It's all tit for tat shit.

    And for the billionth time, that's why I'm weary of arguments for both sides.
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  • Yossarian
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    But it's not tit for tat. There's an overwhelming scientific consensus which you're choosing to ignore.
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  • Yossarian
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    Christ, this is the man you're choosing to believe (from Wiki):
    Mörner has written a number of works claiming to provide theoretical support for dowsing.[19] He was elected "Deceiver of the year" by Föreningen Vetenskap och Folkbildning in 1995 for "organizing university courses about dowsing...".[3] In 1997 James Randi asked him to claim the One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge, making a controlled experiment to prove that dowsing works.[20] Mörner declined the offer.[21]
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  • The time has come for me to disengage from conversing with @dynamiteReady until he's at least attempted to address the below because he's all over the place at the moment, and seems to be scarcely reading other people's posts.  
    Funkstain wrote:
    - Climate change is happening 
    - It is happening very quickly
    - A major reason for the rapidity of change and the severity of change is humans

    Without even going into the potential outcomes, which of these points do you dispute, and on what basis / what alternatives for the observed data do you have? It's that simple. Nothing to do with dogma, fanaticism, or bullshit articles in economy magazines. Just simple discussion. Please can you address this before continuing so we can have a constructive discussion?
  • Yossarian
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    Just to recap, on the one hand we have 97% of 12,000 peer reviewed articles on climate change, on the other, 5 academics who feel that their articles were misrepresented in that study, a geologist, a biogeologist who doesn't dispute the fact he has no climate credentials, an economist and the Deceiver of the Year 1995 who believes that dowsing can be scientifically proven, but who refuses to do so under controlled conditions despite being offered a million dollars to do so.

    Tit for tat my arse.
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  • cockbeard
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    So once again, what are the plans for change. I mean Scotland has recently promised to close 60% of it's generation capacity to make sure it reaches particulate targets laid down by EU. I may or may not bother to google evidence for this at some point but it was mentioned by Zoe Shipton the other week and I see no political reason for her to lie
    "I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B
  • Yossarian
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    Essentially, we need to stop burning fossil fuels and invest massively in nuclear and renewables. Fingers crossed our leaders do something this week.

    If you want to have a personal impact on climate change, become vegetarian. That's the single biggest thing you can do to reduce your carbon footprint unless you own a power station or take a private jet to work.
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  • Yossarian wrote:
    That's the single biggest thing you can do to reduce your carbon footprint unless you own a power station or take a private jet to work.
    Some tips for Griff there.
  • dynamiteReady
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    monkey wrote:
    The time has come for me to disengage from conversing with @dynamiteReady until he's at least attempted to address the below because he's all over the place at the moment, and seems to be scarcely reading other people's posts.  
    I quote myself for clarity:
    - Climate change is happening  - It is happening very quickly - A major reason for the rapidity of change and the severity of change is humans Without even going into the potential outcomes, which of these points do you dispute, and on what basis / what alternatives for the observed data do you have? It's that simple. Nothing to do with dogma, fanaticism, or bullshit articles in economy magazines. Just simple discussion. Please can you address this before continuing so we can have a constructive discussion?

    Well... I tried.
    What I wanted was discourse, what I got, was bullying.
    Climate change is happening  - It is happening very quickly - A major reason for the rapidity of change and the severity of change is humans.

    And my question was, and still is, what is the correlate?

    Co2s? That's disputable, the chart makes that an easy challenge. 

    The birth rate is a strong one, but we haven't examined that yet. Agriculture is also a major one... And how do we set up 'controls' for lab work in an experiment performed on a living system? How do we know if this pattern of climate change has anything to do with us, and not an unknown cosmic phenomenon? 

    And how do we explain ice ages of the past? Do you think we may see another ice age in the future? There's still a great deal of dispute about the cause of the ice age, and that's in the benefit of hindsight...

    What's wrong with asking questions aout the subject?

    I don't think there's anything wrong with asking these questions, but some of you have already made up your minds, much like the Catholic church once did before Galileo started asking questions.

    I'm not saying the human effected climate change is impossible. I'm trying to say that it's impossible to be certain about this, and that the intelligent thing to do, is to learn more...
    "I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
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  • Skerret
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    http://antigreen.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/the-latest-paper-from-swedish-sea-level.html See what I mean. This is a latter paper. It's all tit for tat shit. And for the billionth time, that's why I'm weary of arguments for both sides.
    not read the new postings and this is probably in here, BUT ANYWAY.

    If 99 climate scientists, recognised experts in their field, reach a consensus (not an actual consensus but for the purposes of this poast yah) through repeatable systematic scientific process that is disputed by a single climate scientist (who is likely to be the least published of the 100), this does not constitute the existence of 'sides'.  There are no arguments, or debate.  The constant references to this phantom debate in mainstream news media, as though there's a 50-50 split on the issue, are risible.
    Skerret's posting is ok to trip balls to and read just to experience the ambience but don't expect any content.
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  • Skerret
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    And stop bullying Dyn-o-mite, he is nice.
    Skerret's posting is ok to trip balls to and read just to experience the ambience but don't expect any content.
    "I'm jealous of sucking major dick!"~ Kernowgaz
  • cockbeard
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    Vegetarian argument is far too simplistic. It is September and I can get spring onions, baby carrots, asparagus and new potatoes. Where have they travelled from?
    "I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B
  • Yossarian
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    Yes, we're the Catholic Church, dogmatically sticking to our beliefs in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
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  • Skerret
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    can i join then
    Skerret's posting is ok to trip balls to and read just to experience the ambience but don't expect any content.
    "I'm jealous of sucking major dick!"~ Kernowgaz
  • Skerret
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    oof wait i already did pre-birth
    Skerret's posting is ok to trip balls to and read just to experience the ambience but don't expect any content.
    "I'm jealous of sucking major dick!"~ Kernowgaz
  • cockbeard wrote:
    We can't stop burning fossil fuels, and worse we can't do without plastics

    Can't is a strong word. 'Wont within a capitalist economy' is probably closer the truth.
  • cockbeard
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    Go on then, give me a scenario that would be agreeable to a high percentage of the population, where we can stop burning fossil fuel and do without plastics. Because it isn't about capitalism, it's about expectation and maybe consumerism. I feel consumerism and capitalism are too separate things and should be treated as such

    Me personally, I could give two shits if the streetlights went out tomorrow, I'm very good at campcraft
    "I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B
  • Yossarian
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    Skerret wrote:
    And stop bullying Dyn-o-mite, he is nice.

    He is, he's lovely. Unfortunately, he's also deeply wrong on this subject.
    cockbeard wrote:
    Vegetarian argument is far too simplistic. It is September and I can get spring onions, baby carrots, asparagus and new potatoes. Where have they travelled from?

    As long as they haven't been transported around the world several times, you should be alright.
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  • Paul the sparky
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    Deciever of the year. What an honour.
  • Even if it's all made up, even if all these scientific experts are covering their backs and fishing for grants with their doomsday hypothes, even if all that is possibly true, what is the worst that could happen? We waste a lot of time/money cutting back on mindless consumption and pollution for the sake of nothing? I'd certainly take that over total population collapse and the end of a habitable planet.
  • cockbeard
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    What do you think would reduce your ecological footprint more, going vegetarian or turning your back on supermarkets?
    "I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B
  • Even if it's all made up, even if all these scientific experts are covering their backs and fishing for grants with their doomsday hypothes, even if all that is possibly true, what is the worst that could happen? We waste a lot of time/money cutting back on mindless consumption and pollution for the sake of nothing? I'd certainly take that over total population collapse and the end of a habitable planet.

    THIS. THIS MULTIPLIED BY INFINITY MULTIPLIED BY THE KELVIN INVREASE IN GRIFFS HOT SPACE.
    Don't try and place me in a box, you cocks. If there's one thing I'm not, it's fucking rectangular.
  • cockbeard wrote:
    Go on then, give me a scenario that would be agreeable to a high percentage of the population, where we can stop burning fossil fuel and do without plastics. Because it isn't about capitalism, it's about expectation and maybe consumerism. I feel consumerism and capitalism are too separate things and should be treated as such Me personally, I could give two shits if the streetlights went out tomorrow, I'm very good at campcraft

    Not sure comsumerism and capitalism are so separable, unless you are thinking of some sort of primitiive eco-capitalism, which i wouldnt really be opposed to. 

    Either way, the required measures are never going to be popular. We're a species far too fixated with the short-term.
  • Yossarian
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    cockbeard wrote:
    What do you think would reduce your ecological footprint more, going vegetarian or turning your back on supermarkets?

    I'm pretty sure going vegetarian would. Did you read that article? It can take 18,000 gallons of water to make a third-pound hamburger patty.

    Ditching supermarkets wouldn't hurt, though.
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