The robots are coming. Restructure the economy. Go. - The Bear and Badger

djchump

https://www.theredhandfiles.com/considering-human-imagination-the-last-piece-of-wilderness-do-you-think-ai-will-ever-be-able-to-write-a-good-song/

SpaceGazelle

I'd imagine so.

poprock

So DeepMind (predictably) wiped the floor with the human StarCraft players.

Wired report here.

Armitage_Shankburn

Jaco

The sooner all train staff are replaced with robots / automation, the better. SCREW YOU, TRAIN FOLK.

poprock

Keep an eye on our underground system up here in Glasgow. It’s due to switch to 100% driverless in the next couple of years. So we’re the guinea pigs (again) and you can watch how much or how little things fuck up here.

Yossarian

The Dockland Light Railway has been driverless since it was created. The guinea pigs were bankers for a change.

Jaco

poprock wrote:

Keep an eye on our underground system up here in Glasgow. It’s due to switch to 100% driverless in the next couple of years. So we’re the guinea pigs (again) and you can watch how much or how little things fuck up here.

Trains are the one form of transport that I think will run much better with as little human involvement as possible. Cannot wait for them to go fully robo.

poprock

Yossarian wrote:

The Dockland Light Railway has been driverless since it was created. The guinea pigs were bankers for a change.

That’s true. I always used to enjoy sitting in the front seat and pretending to drive.

SpaceGazelle

Planes shouldn't have pilots either, it's just the public would freak out despite being more likely to die.

Edit: More likely to die with a pilot.

Roujin

poprock wrote:

So DeepMind (predictably) wiped the floor with the human StarCraft players.

Wired report here.

What's interesting is that this happened last year with Dota as well, but was really cool is that the things the AI did changed the way players approached some aspects of the game, even more interesting is that players then started training against the AI bot to get better.

I think they eventually beat it iirc. But best of all is that the bot would/will develop a counter to this and so the level of human players will have to rise again.

Its like a mad self reinforcing loop where people and the AI both get better as a result of their interaction and imho is a hugely underused example of beneficial interaction with AI and people that had applications in all kinds of other areas.

SpaceGazelle

It happened with Go too. New moves, new techniques for AI and humans.

Roujin

That Go move was a madness, dude had to go out for a smoke when it got played.

Diluted Dante

Deepmind still can't work out a strategy for Smash Bros though.

Roujin

And just like smashers, it can't go in the shower.

dynamiteReady

I'm not a Starcraft 2 expert, and I do lean on the commentary quite a bit, but those AlphaStar matches looked as sloppy as hell...

In the second replay on the stream, the AI looked like it shat the bed multiple times, hitting it's own units, and shooting at the moon like a redneck.

What's more the player they put up against it wasn't a Protoss main...

Entertaining stream though, undoubtedly.

Tempy

It’s interesting/telling of where they are in the process, that when they restricted it to only being able to control what it could see on screen, like a human player, it lost. Would a human player with all the advantages the AI had lost all of their matches? I’m sure the Dota thing was similar.

Roujin

I think the thing with the AI is that even once it's restricted to only controlling what's on the screen, it's capacity for timer tracking and snapping the map must mean it ends up almost being able to control units it's can't see anyway once it's learned what to do. It losing when viewing a single screen - heavy IMHO alert - is just because it hasn't "practiced" that way of playing.

I think if a human had all the advantages the AI had in terms of total unit control they would probably just end up in a situation where it's strategy vs strategy against the AI. I imagine most of the top players - massive ignorance of high level SC2 play alert - are pretty much able to remember what their units are doing and keep a general track of their timers and stuff across a map. Although I suppose an AI would be able to build and command a much larger or varied force than a human player, but again, maybe human players right now are building as much as they can as fast as is humanly possibly anyway during their games.

Blocks100

Jaco wrote:

Trains are the one form of transport that I think will run much better with as little human involvement as possible. Cannot wait for them to go fully robo.

Two major rail work networks have been on strike up here in the North to preserve human involvement in trains. There are many good reasons for this. The carriages that I ride on are often over-crowded and we rely on a guard to stand outside to make a decision on whether everyone has managed to squeeze safely inside before the signal is given to close the doors and restart the journey. Don't think I'd feel comfortable with a robot making that judgement call.

In a country where incidents of race hate, sexual harrassment, and other forms of ASB are on the rise, guards on trains are there to safeguard passengers from those situations. Can't see a robot being much use when a gang of goby youths get on the train and start acting up.

Guards also provide a myriad of other essential operations like managing the disabled ramps for passengers that need them.

Trains need humans as much as humans need trains. Consider this. Which country runs the best train network? Japan. Which country is mad on robots? Japan. Why then have they not gone down the 'Robo Train' track? Because they too understand the necessity of having humans operate human trains.

Roujin

Agree with blocks. I believe already though that train times are determined by algorithms rather than human intervention when planning the schedules.

I would rather the train drives itself and then have a second guard instead of a driver, peak trains are a madness and also antisocial behaviour is the fuck these days so an extra bod to keep an eye on the train would be a good idea imho.

Fuck getting rid of guards though and fuck anyone who complains about how much train drivers get paid.

Roujin

Jaco wrote:

Trains are the one form of transport that I think will run much better with as little human involvement as possible. Cannot wait for them to go fully robo.

Also while I'm here, it's clearly cars. Cars being autonomous is going to save way more lives and reduce traffic and make everyone happier when you can just get in the car and chill out/do work/whatever instead of punching your steering wheel.

SpaceGazelle

I object to the robot drivers getting paid.

Roujin

HATE CRIME DETECTED.

SpaceGazelle

Roujin wrote:

Jaco wrote:

Trains are the one form of transport that I think will run much better with as little human involvement as possible. Cannot wait for them to go fully robo.

Also while I'm here, it's clearly cars. Cars being autonomous is going to save way more lives and reduce traffic and make everyone happier when you can just get in the car and chill out/do work/whatever instead of punching your steering wheel.

It's a way off with cars yet. They can drive pretty well in small numbers but it'll take a lot of communication between all the cars to make it work well, and that makes it vulnerable to hacking.

SpaceGazelle

Roujin wrote:

HATE CRIME DETECTED.

Heh.

Roujin

SpaceGazelle wrote:

Roujin wrote:

Jaco wrote:

Trains are the one form of transport that I think will run much better with as little human involvement as possible. Cannot wait for them to go fully robo.

Also while I'm here, it's clearly cars. Cars being autonomous is going to save way more lives and reduce traffic and make everyone happier when you can just get in the car and chill out/do work/whatever instead of punching your steering wheel.

It's a way off with cars yet. They can drive pretty well in small numbers but it'll take a lot of communication between all the cars to make it work well, and that makes it vulnerable to hacking.

Oh yeah, no doubt it's a hard one to impliment. I feel like the nature of car ownership would need to change and you just subscribe to a car service that sends it's cars to you rather than owning your own.

I realise the petrolheads are not going to like that, but petrol is going in the bin hopefully in my lifetime. No offence petrolheads, I will be sad when the last Lancia Delta is off the road as well.

GurtTractor

Everything as a service. Subscribe to life.

SpaceGazelle

The chances of nationalisation of all this automation are slim, which is a major pisser.

Roujin

GurtTractor wrote:

Everything as a service. Subscribe to life.

Unfortunately.

GooberTheHat

Roujin wrote:

SpaceGazelle wrote:

Roujin wrote:

Jaco wrote:

Trains are the one form of transport that I think will run much better with as little human involvement as possible. Cannot wait for them to go fully robo.

Also while I'm here, it's clearly cars. Cars being autonomous is going to save way more lives and reduce traffic and make everyone happier when you can just get in the car and chill out/do work/whatever instead of punching your steering wheel.

It's a way off with cars yet. They can drive pretty well in small numbers but it'll take a lot of communication between all the cars to make it work well, and that makes it vulnerable to hacking.

Oh yeah, no doubt it's a hard one to impliment. I feel like the nature of car ownership would need to change and you just subscribe to a car service that sends it's cars to you rather than owning your own.

I realise the petrolheads are not going to like that, but petrol is going in the bin hopefully in my lifetime. No offence petrolheads, I will be sad when the last Lancia Delta is off the road as well.

I reckon it'll be more like an uber type arrangement rather than a subscription service.

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