I was thinking more along the lines of, sure, you could break a chair, but you'd obviously be exposed to attacks while doing so. In a bar you could try to grab a bottle or glass out of a bystander's hand, but if rushing to do it, end up knocking it to the floor. Basically, you'd need to do some proper fighting to buy you time to sort out your weapon, but may have used up too much of your stamina to get to that point. Trust me, as soon as I learn how to program, it'll be amazing.

Yeah, but that's not what I'd like to see in a game. I'm maybe not explaining myself very well. Just imagine the best bits of UFC, with both guys on their feet, kicking, punching and so on, but out on the street, or in a bar, or... any number of places. Think Def Jam Fight for New York, but with the UFC games' mechanics instead of the ridiculous, over the top moves.

you're largely describing double dragon

Who would want to play a 'real' fighting game though? Stand up limbs flailing, chaotic brawling in a realistic setting trying to twat someone with the drip tray off the bar sounds fucking awful in terms of trying to frame the experience as a vs fighter, where the rules are usually fairly rigid in terms of what hits what, and how moves interact to prevent players from being able to do stuff like infinite combos or unblockable setups. Would the fighting in the game end as soon as someone landed a realistic blow to the head? Because you could just play Kengo or something if you want a fighter with realistic-ish win conditions (I haven't played much of Fight Night or any UFC to comment on how well that game handles people getting hit clean upside the head). 

Also Smang is correct, Double Dragon and loads of other side scrollers like Streets of Rage, Final Fight and their ilk often had stages set in bars where there was many a smashing people through tables, or glassing people, or stabbing them up to be had, there was just no real competetive element to it (end of Double Dragon 1 notwithstanding)

No we are all trying to put what you said in the context of a fighting game because this is a fighting game thread being read by people who play fighting games. 

So you want like defjam style street/real location environs, with realish kinda moves, and players using the environmental stuff around them as well as their hands, feet, foreheads, etc. Yes?

Let's not get a hard on over who played what and when because that is not a discussion you want to have. Let me just say that I have played stuff from EA over the years that as far as I can tell has mechanical similarities with the UFC games, the WWE games and Fight Night seem broadly similar in terms of presentation, they seem to be using the same engine. 

So I am guessing that if we remove the groundwork component guessing game thing that UFC has, you would be left with something that throws punches kicks and handles grabs/clinching like a combination between a WWE title and fight night. Is that a fair assumption?

Roujin, are there what you would call footsies in the traditional sense, in Tekken?

The footsies in Tekken are still called footsies.

The main difference is that Tekken places an emphasis on punishment of your opponents missed, blocked or parried jabs due to the slow speed of pokes compared to 2d fighters, where you are trying to get into range and land your jab before the opponent lands theirs.

Edit: Beaten to the punch (lol) by Smang

Why isn't there a better 3d side scrolling beat em up?! A 3d Double Dragon could be pretty good i dare say. What ever happened to Spike (i think), thatbwas supposed to be the shizzle. I think there is defo scope for a more adept and technical side scroller.

Not Tekkens side scroller fyi.

Smang wrote:

personally, it seems to me the crux of the problem is that you think the UFC games are fighting games... they're sports sims.

No, I get that it is a sport sim, but when the sport is fighting, it's not a massive step to make it a fighting game.

"Smang wrote:

i guess double dragon only differs in that it's not 1 on 1. except for that 1 on 1 double dragon game.

No, there's a massive difference. There are dozens of different attacks in UFC, including some combos, limited to generally two or three strikes.

Roujin wrote:

Let's not get a hard on over who played what and when because that is not a discussion you want to have.

Oh, for fuck's sake, that is the most ridiculous thing I've read all day, closely followed by your 'this is a fightman thread' or whatever. Get over yourself. I have precisely zero interest in getting into a pissing contest about who's played what, or how amazingly wonderful you are at a particular genre. All I was saying is that if you haven't played the very game I've based my fanciful notion on, it explains why you compared it to totally different things.

At the end of the day a) I don't think it is beyond anyone's comprehension that ridiculous movesets and unbelievable characters might be putting some people off of fighting games, b) it matters not a jot, it'll probably never happen, and c) it was just an aside, a half-formed thought, I didn't expect an inquisition.

At this rate, context is that character one is Roujin, stomping on character two's head.  I am character two.

You are the player holding the controller. But which character are you controlling?

adkm1979 wrote:

Smang wrote:

personally, it seems to me the crux of the problem is that you think the UFC games are fighting games... they're sports sims.

No, I get that it is a sport sim, but when the sport is fighting, it's not a massive step to make it a fighting game.

"Smang wrote:

i guess double dragon only differs in that it's not 1 on 1. except for that 1 on 1 double dragon game.

No, there's a massive difference. There are dozens of different attacks in UFC, including some combos, limited to generally two or three strikes.

Roujin wrote:

Let's not get a hard on over who played what and when because that is not a discussion you want to have.

Oh, for fuck's sake, that is the most ridiculous thing I've read all day, closely followed by your 'this is a fightman thread' or whatever. Get over yourself. I have precisely zero interest in getting into a pissing contest about who's played what, or how amazingly wonderful you are at a particular genre. All I was saying is that if you haven't played the very game I've based my fanciful notion on, it explains why you compared it to totally different things. At the end of the day a) I don't think it is beyond anyone's comprehension that ridiculous movesets and unbelievable characters might be putting some people off of fighting games, b) it matters not a jot, it'll probably never happen, and c) it was just an aside, a half-formed thought, I didn't expect an inquisition.

Bro, chill, apologies for rubbing you the wrong way here. I posted in repsonse to you saying that because I hadn't played a UFC title I was unable to grasp the point you were trying to get at with your suggestion for a more realistic fighter. I haven't played a UFC title, but I am not ignorant as to the mechanics or how the games works, I've watched it being played, I've seen the publicity videos from the devs from before the launch of UFC14 which went through a bunch of the gameplay including the groundwork stuff. I've also played other stuff from the similar EA sports titles which I believe have similar gameplay elements, even if the method of execution is not exactly the same.

The comment about people in a fightman thread was some sarcasm because I cant stop myself from casually trolling/baiting threads it is too tempting to pass up. Again, apologies for making u mad bro, etc. 

I agree with your point a. There is deffo room for a more realistic fighting game, VF was a pretty good suggestion of that, if you want even more realistic I guess we have Fight Night and their ilk in terms of a realistic approach to character movement and capabilities. RedDaves contribution on physics would be something that would be cool to see. I just think that if you go too real world on it, without actually going down the sim route it would be boring, clearly this is not what you had in mind anyway so it's moot at this point. 

I also agree with you on point b. but not out of personal preference, just that unfortunately developers probably think these games wouldn't sell. I would love a title like Soul Calibur for instance, but that actually made a stab of accurately depicting medieval weapon fighting instead of shoving fan service scantily clad tits and ass in my face that the series has descended into. 

Point c. Sorry if you feel like you've been given a hard time, I don't think anyone in here has posted anything any more or less harshly than can be found elsewhere on the ol' forum. 

I'm totally not full of myself, or think I am in any way good at the games I play, I play a lot of them for the enjoyment and mind games over actually beating people, all the mordor guys are more than capable of handing of my ass to me on a plate, so sorry again if I came across like I was trying to lord it over you. 

Hugs etc.

Given the popularity of games of thrones I'm surprised we haven't seen a more gritty / semi-realistic sword fighter.

adkm's favourite as I recall

Anyone play Tekken 7 here?

I'm up for a game if you do.