Immigration thread.
  • If only we could afford the political willpower to make children an asset. Imagine that unburden. Nah, too expensive, especially the foreign ones.
  • Apologies if this is slapdash but I wrote an epic and then lost it to an accidental click.

    The majority of anti-immigration sentiment is racism leaking out through a loophole but that doesn't mean there aren't real issues.

    I moved out of my parent's into a flat in toxteth. The area was poor and run down. My flat was shitty and damp. Over the road a derelict building was being renovated as flats and I wanted one. When it was finished it was immediately filled with Kosovars. The queue for the phonebox jumped from 0-2 minutes to 15-45 minutes. The wait to see a GP went up to 2 weeks.

    Now I didn't hate these people, the impact on my life wasn't much and they were fleeing warzone ffs, but it was annoying.
    "..the pseudo-Left new style.."
  • Poor you. Lack of empathy is a significant problem.
  • It seems so.
    "..the pseudo-Left new style.."
  • I should say I'm pro-immigration. And that my flat wasn't just damp, it was condemned at one point. I had a cough that I couldn't shift for months and there's a good chance it was a factor in my gf giving birth to a dead baby girl.
    "..the pseudo-Left new style.."
  • That doesn't seem like an immigration problem, that seems like a more people in same area with resources not being scaled to match problem. People from Kosovo or Toxteth would have produced the same problem
  • In the case of the flats, if they had been open to locals then I might've been one of those locals. With the phone boxes, locals don't tend to spend quite so much time telling their family about how things are going with their new post code. With the doctor's waiting list, I think people coming from a wartorn country might have been putting off getting that ingrowing toenail seen to.
    "..the pseudo-Left new style.."
  • So you have an initial, short term spike, which then dies down. If there aren't more GP's brought in, then the waiting time will still rise, because there are more people trying to fit into the same amount of appointment slots. Which again, doesn't matter where they are from, will still happen. 2 weeks is about the same as my docs.

    If the gif is aimed at me, there is a difference between immigration and internal migration. Ukippers don't have an issue with migration.
  • Like I said, I'm pro-immigration. I live in toxteth because I like cultural diversity. This is a minor event that I only mentioned this because it happened to me and it demonstrates how immigration can lead to a strain on public services and ill feeling towards immigrants. I never felt ill will toward immigrants btw.

    Once when I was in the queue for the phone boxes, I heard two other people, most likely children of the wave of caribbean immigrants in the 50s, saying "I wish they'd go back to their own fucking country."

    edit - It was a short term spike. It was all back to normal after a few months. But that doesn't make it any less annoying when you're puking, sweating and shivering and the nearest appointment is around the same time as you get better all by yourself.
    "..the pseudo-Left new style.."
  • I'm not saying you aren't pro-immigration. But what I am saying is that concentrations of people, no matter where they are from lead to strains in public services if the relevant authorities don't plan correctly.

    So in the example of your doctors, new building developments means more people in the catchment area for the surgery. Joined up planning would have meant the NHS would have either brought more GP's into the existing surgery, or created another.

    So the culprit isn't immigration, it's local authorities not being on the ball, or not getting the funding required to react to changing conditions.

    This though is a lot more of a complicated answer than 'fucking immigrants', which is why UKIP do so well.
  • I've been trying to say that poorly planned immigration leads to ill feeling which is capitalised on by the likes of UKIP.

    100 new people moving into a postcode from anywhere might make an impact. I can compare when some 60s flats were demolished, and a housing estate was built where it stood, to the renovated old building filled with immigrants. The number of shouty, arsehole, kids increased 5x but there was no noticeable impact on the doctors or phone boxes. I imagine a lot of the families on the estate didn't change their doctor in the same week since their old one was still reachable.

    Schools might've found it difficult with a bunch of kids that had not yet figured out the ways of toxteth but that's probably easier than teaching kids that can't speak english yet.

    These are totally predictable and solvable problems. If immigration policy involved predicting and solving them then some of us probably wouldn't know how to pronounce Farage.
    "..the pseudo-Left new style.."
  • b0r1s
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    Fa-ra-gee?
  • Arse?

    The Tory solution seems to be cutting local authority budgets, because austerity is totally working guys, its not actually a load of ideological horseshit.
  • GooberTheHat
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    Kind of reflects those infographics in the election thread showing those least affected by immigration are the ones most against it.
  • It's easier to dehumanise people you can't see.
    "..the pseudo-Left new style.."
  • https://kenanmalik.wordpress.com/2013/11/25/in-defence-of-diversity/

    This should go here. Kenan malik is a fucking awesome writer.
    I'm still great and you still love it.
  • Nice piece. Anyway, another 200 souls lost. Lack of humanitarian action really is a disgrace.
  • "Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." ― Terry Pratchett
  • Talking of Iran it was nice to see that all Republican candidates in the debate were unanimously against the Iranian Nuclear deal. Every single one of those idiots thought it was a bad idea.
  • None of them having read it too.

    The answer to 'what would be a better deal' is apparently 'a better deal'. Well fuck me, I'm surprised that no one else thought of that.

    Never mind that this has pushed the timetable for them getting a bomb from 8 months to 8 years by their own maths.
  • Too diverse?
    Is Britain becoming too diverse to sustain the mutual obligations behind a good society and the welfare state?

    Prospect article from 2004. Interesting reading. "progressive dilemma" seems an interesting/useful concept. Although in the intervening 11 years, maybe it's been poisoned, so who knows.

    Either way, file under #long and #foodforthought IMO.
    I'm still great and you still love it.
  • Red flags ahoy in the second half of the article. Woah.
    I'm still great and you still love it.
  • Kow
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    I had a subscription to Prospect for a while. It's more or less unredeemable shite.
  • Out of interest, what would everyone do about people crossing the mediterranean?
    "..the pseudo-Left new style.."
  • Kow
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    Towns all around the med are getting swamped by crowds of miserable humanity, it's terrible. Then they all get back on the cruise ship and fuck off, thankfully.
  • So people coming from other countries is a bad thing?
    "..the pseudo-Left new style.."
  • He was doing a bit about tourists.

    I'd distribute people throughout the EU and look to start improving the lot of the countries in North Africa and the Middle East through various complicated long term projects.

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