F1 - The Bear and Badger

Eric

GooberTheHat wrote:

Button got lucky 11 years ago.

Button beat Lewis in the 2011 championship too when they were team mates at Mclaren

Dinostar77

Eric wrote:

GooberTheHat wrote:

Button got lucky 11 years ago.

Button beat Lewis in the 2011 championship too when they were team mates at Mclaren

Lewis won more races but Button scored more points. Id argue Button was his most important teammate. Lewis learnt alot about tyre management from Button. Button is revered to this day at Mclaren when it comes to tyre management as lando norris said recently.

Bob

Eric wrote:

Button?

Nah

Bob

Eric wrote:

GooberTheHat wrote:

Button got lucky 11 years ago.

Button beat Lewis in the 2011 championship too when they were team mates at Mclaren

Button played safe so the stats flatter him.

Bob

Dinostar77 wrote:

Eric wrote:

GooberTheHat wrote:

Button got lucky 11 years ago.

Button beat Lewis in the 2011 championship too when they were team mates at Mclaren

Lewis won more races but Button scored more points. Id argue Button was his most important teammate. Lewis learnt alot about tyre management from Button. Button is revered to this day at Mclaren when it comes to tyre management as lando norris said recently.

Fuck off

Button was also ran destined to be another coulthard

The combination of luck needed for him to win a WDC will never be repeated again.

First Honda pull out
Secondly brawn buys the team (I’m not sure this ever happened in this order before)
They lose the Hknda engine
The merc engine fits
They exploit a loop hole for the double diffuser
They gave button a team mate used to playing second fiddle.

By any count that’s six absolutely lucky coincidences

Diluted Dante

I like the idea that you can get lucky by winning the most races and leading the entire season.

Bob

Diluted Dante wrote:

I like the idea that you can get lucky by winning the most races and leading the entire season.

How can you not when you’ve exploited a loop hole with a car that shouldn’t even be on the grid ????

Diluted Dante

Bob wrote:

I like the idea that you can get lucky by winning the most races and leading the entire season.

How can you not when you’ve exploited a loop hole with a car that shouldn’t even be on the grid ????

It didn't seem to do Williams or Toyota any good. It was good design plain and simple, and the other teams were pissed off only because they hadn't thought of it.

GooberTheHat

And when the other teams caught up brawn stopped winning, hence button got lucky.

Eric

Bob wrote:

Eric wrote:

GooberTheHat wrote:

Button got lucky 11 years ago.

Button beat Lewis in the 2011 championship too when they were team mates at Mclaren

Button played safe so the stats flatter him.

The question was though, who hasn't been overwhelmed by having Lewis as his team mate. I don't think Button was.

Bob

Yeah. Let me drill down into it

Honda leave formula one .. button doesn’t have a drive

A team principal buys team . Pretty sure a works team
Has never been sold
To a team principal but sure it happens

But Christ they’ve designed the car around the Honda engine they no longer have

They buy the best engine going it fits

They exploit the double diffuser

Five total flukes to give button the championship

Bob

Eric wrote:

Bob wrote:

Eric wrote:

GooberTheHat wrote:

Button got lucky 11 years ago.

Button beat Lewis in the 2011 championship too when they were team mates at Mclaren

Button played safe so the stats flatter him.

The question was though, who hasn't been overwhelmed by having Lewis as his team mate. I don't think Button was.

He matched Alonso .. I think even button
Would say he came off lucky .. Rosberg has the most extreme luck

And that’s what the negihammy
Fanboys cling too

Eric

I'm not slating Hamilton here, no one comes close to his talent or achievement. I'm just saying Button was a good teammate who wasn't overawed by his ability.

Diluted Dante

GooberTheHat wrote:

And when the other teams caught up brawn stopped winning, hence button got lucky.

They didn't though. Barichello won 2 races after Button.

Button scored points in every race except the one someone drove into the back of him. Others crashed out and got themselves disqualified for lying to stewards.

I'm pretty sure Jensen specifically chose to go to McClaren to drive with Lewis, and they're still friends now.

GooberTheHat

Great Britain
VET
RBR RENAULT

Germany
WEB
RBR RENAULT

Hungary
HAM
MCLAREN MERCEDES

Europe
BAR
BRAWN MERCEDES

Belgium
RAI
FERRARI

Italy
BAR
BRAWN MERCEDES

Singapore
HAM
MCLAREN MERCEDES

Japan
VET
RBR RENAULT

Brazil
WEB
RBR RENAULT

Abu Dhabi
VET
RBR RENAULT

The last 10 races of the season and not a single Button win. He got lucky. I'm happy he got lucky as I liked him as a driver, but he got lucky.

Dinostar77

You do realise that Brawn had almost no R&D budget to speak of. They pretty much finished the season with the car they started with, which is unheard of in F1. All cars develop over the course of a season. The other teams developed their double diffusers and caught Brawn up.

You could say Button got lucky, but you could say that about loads of drivers who won the WDC. Mansells Williams had Active Suspension for example when the rest of the field didnt. F1 is about innovation and sometimes the right piece of innovation leads to a driver getting a good chance to win a WDC. They still have to go out there and deliver the race perform and score the required points.

Bob

Still lucky the team was literally finished until
Brawn stepped in

GooberTheHat

My argument isn't about button, it was about which young prospect are we comparing Bottas against when we say he's a busted flush? No one, other than rosberg (in an effort that drove him from the sport) in a year when Hamilton suffered from terrible reliability, has proven themselves as "the next big thing". I include button in that. No denying he did well, but if you don't think he got lucky with his WDC I don't think there is much more I can say to convince you otherwise.

Dinostar77

Mazepin been told off for inappropriate now deleted Instagram video of him touching a womans breasts without concent. Anyway daddy will give has some more millions to make them forget about it. Afterall this is thendriver who finished 5th in F2 championship but daddys billions got him a f1 seat.

Dinostar77

GooberTheHat wrote:

My argument isn't about button, it was about which young prospect are we comparing Bottas against when we say he's a busted flush? No one, other than rosberg (in an effort that drove him from the sport) in a year when Hamilton suffered from terrible reliability, has proven themselves as "the next big thing". I include button in that. No denying he did well, but if you don't think he got lucky with his WDC I don't think there is much more I can say to convince you otherwise.

There was luck involved. Theres always luck involved with most drivers who win WDC. Lewis got lucky with Mercedes when everyone thought he was mental to leave Mclaren for them. Button got lucky with the Brawn. Seb got lucky with the RB.

I don't think Bottas is a busted flush, he just worn down by going up against one of the greats of the sport. I maintain Russell would be as worn down going up against lewis.

The next big thing may not have appeared on the grid just yet. It might not be max.

Bob

Dinostar77 wrote:

Mazepin been told off for inappropriate now deleted Instagram video of him touching a womans breasts without concent. Anyway daddy will give has some more millions to make them forget about it. Afterall this is thendriver who finished 5th in F2 championship but daddys billions got him a f1 seat.

Wait until his daddy buys him a team, gives him the updates first despite clearly being the second best driver then throws out the best driver to make way for some old has been who spins more than he scored points

Eric

Derek Warwick or Mark Blundell perhaps ?

Dinostar77

It is rather worrying what is happening to F1, drivers from working class/average backgrounds are becoming few and far between. Its all rich kids who arent necessarily the most talented but get enough racing points to get into f1 via daddy paying millions to get them there. If they arent good enough then daddy can buy the team or a majority stake in the team and eventually somehow buy them a WDC.

RamSteelwood

it's always been a rich kids' game. those from genuine humble, working class beginnings are few and far between. Even then, if they aren't bankrolled by a major sponsor by the time they get to their teens they're going nowhere.

I saw Perez complaining about 'not all the best drivers in F1' the other day, and while i'm sympathetic to his situation and agree he is a good driver, he's also effectively been a pay driver his whole career due to the huge amount of sponsorship he brings with him. The irony of him being replaced by Vettel is that I'd guess Vettel is more of a net cost to the team than Perez was, even if Perez is a better driver currently.

Dinostar77

Getting sponsored is the way it should be or getting into an academy. Having billionaire daddys buy you a seat is annoying. Then again you have doors opening for drivers based on who their fathers were in the sport.

Apparently the reason for getting Perez out and Vettel in is so Stroll Jnr can learn from Vettel as the ultimate aim is for Stroll Jnr to become a WDC, thats why daddy invested in the team.

Still think its a complete no brainer to put Perez in the RB. He brings huge sponsorship money which would be useful to RB as they plan to take over the Honda engines. Perez could teach Max a thing or two about managing tyres. As Button taught Lewis when they were teammates. As one mclaren race engineer put it. "..Lewis was always stupidly fast, but he learnt from Button to drive stupidly fast by going as slow as possible and preserving the life of his tyres..." . Something like that.

Anyway other than learning a thing or two off the seasoned and wiley fox that is Perez. Perez would be a constant thorn in the side of the Mercs and help RB with points and strategy. Max cant go up against 2 mercs by himself.

Diluted Dante

Perez would give RB a much better chance of winning the constructors championship, and give Max a shot at the drivers. Hes 4th, having missed 2 races with Covid, and scored points in all except the last but one when his car blew up at the end.

RamSteelwood

If i was RB, i'd ditch Kvyat from Alpha, move Albon back there, and bring in Perez.

Does Kvyat bring a lot of money? I wonder if RB a bit stuck in that they don't want to drop him and lose the money for Alpha, but also don't want to kick Albon out altogether...so instead are hoping he comes good at RB.

Eric

Yeah, it's looking incredibly short sighted of Racing Point to get rid of him, I hope it comes back to sting them.

This may sound incredibly bitter (it is) but I hope Stroll never wins a race in F1. He comes across as a bit of a twat plus I absolutely hate that level of entitlement.

jdanielp

If I was RB I would have have used the end of this mixed up year to either move MV to AT alongside DK (which would be my preference, albeit would have derailed MV's bid for second in the WDC that he seems to have done on his own as it happens) or move DK back to Red Bull alongside MV: this would pit PG directly against AA for a few races and also help to provide a comparison between the current RB and AT cars. Conclusions that could be drawn: if PG was to beat AA (especially in a RB given that PG isn't familiar with the current team), PG is shown to be demonstrably better than AA so a suitable decision can be made on their future drives; if MV in an AT was to beat both AA and PG in the RB, it confirms that he is indeed very impressive, but also that the AT car may be not that much worse than the current RB - DK being faster in the RB than AT would be useful, if less conclusive.

Eric

Intersting idea. Could you imagine Horner breaking that news to Max. Ha ha!!

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