SPOILERS Star Wars Last Jedi SPOILERS - The Bear and Badger

Paul the sparky

Fair enough. Its just that if they're aiming (R2 and C3PO) for a gritty and dark tale (GGI Tarkin) about a doomed mission (Vader does a LOL) set within the Star Wars universe, the fan service is more than a little distracting.

The broad strokes are there. The ships, storm troopers, outfits, droids etc. are all as Star Wars as fuck, no need for the constant reminders and nods.

I'm sounding like a broken record here anyway, time to get over it.

Paul the sparky

The reason I keep coming back in here to mull it over is that most seem to have loved it, the four lads I went with certainly did, and yet here I am, a Star Wars fan, finding it a bit of a disappointment. Just trying to put a finger on why that is.

Rev

Because it's yet another film that seemed to have a very specific sense of direction that has suffered the cutting room scissors to seemingly appease the money men that just need another mammoth box office smash regardless of what ends up on screen.
I really liked it but, Forest was underused, the pilot was seemingly turned mad but looked fine to me. The middle Vader scene didn't add anything to the film when it could have been so much more.

regmcfly

You've already put your finger on it - it's the same reason I certainly see for my disappointment. It's widely known about the reshoots and script rewrites, and what you've seen isn't a movie with a cohesive vision, it's been shaped and softened and had all the rough edges sanded down to make something that is easily consumable.
I compared it to the Marvel machine earlier and I stand by that - it's an amiable romp that will review genially but really does nothing interesting or exciting.
It's sad but the modern movie system means that when your film is costing $200+ million you're gonna have to make it as palatable as possible.

regmcfly

Saw Guerrera seemed like a character who, in another version of the movie, would be the rebels' equivalent of Vader /m- the physical parallels are already obvious and there. A guy who will resort to torture and abuse for what he sees as his end result. But that all got pied and Ruiz Ahmed got a weird torture scene that went nowhere

Rev

Where for me, TFA is a repeatedly enjoyable experience (especially now my son is loving star wars) I kind of get the feeling on repeated viewings, I'm going to pick up a whole load of disjointed stuff I missed the first time round.
Im hoping a directors cut exists, since they aren't placing it within the normal run of films, and we get to see more of the gritty and less stardust.

Tempy

Disney is the real Vader

regmcfly

Tempy wrote:

Disney is the real Vader

Walt likely is in some version of a Bacta tank

Gremill

Tempy wrote:

Citizen charged with overthinking

Five cycles in the isocube

Nice.

Andy wrote:

Paul the sparky wrote:

Just talking about a film I went to see. No harm in it is there?

Nope, not at all. I was reading yours and Tempy's chat about the grey areas of rebel conflict and thinking that I'd enjoyed that aspect of it. It's just that reading this thread since the film came out, the reactions to fleeting seconds of fan-service are a bit OTT. I tend to see them as almost fourth-wall breaking nods and winks. In a sweeping space opera that has always had a sense of fun, there's no harm in any of it.

You're not wrong.

Paul the sparky

Stardust kept putting me in mind of a fantasy film that managed to be light and humorous while also being dark and sinister.

Can't remember the name of it now, must have been that tentacle monster lie detector torture thing I was sat next to on the bus.

Paul the sparky

Hullo Grem, I'm going to rub my tentacle in your face within the hour.

regmcfly

Paul the sparky wrote:

Stardust kept putting me in mind of a fantasy film that managed to be light and humorous while also being dark and sinister.

Can't remember the name of it now, must have been that tentacle monster lie detector torture thing I was sat next to on the bus.

Is it the movie Stardust

mistercrayon

Paul the sparky wrote:

I loved the Robbit to be fair, a heap of HK-47 about him. But using him as comic relief doesn't work if you're aiming for darkness does it?

I dunno a bit of matter of fact gallows in a suicide mission can create an increased bond in the crew. An ever tightening siege mentality.

regmcfly

I'd reckon robot was written much as he originally was. He gave no fucks about anyone and even in the DARKOZT Star Wars there would be moments of levity

regmcfly

When chewie got swuashed by a moon I fucking lolled

Paul the sparky

@Crayon I agree. I was talking shite there.

mistercrayon

regmcfly wrote:

Saw Guerrera seemed like a character who, in another version of the movie, would be the rebels' equivalent of Vader /m- the physical parallels are already obvious and there. A guy who will resort to torture and abuse for what he sees as his end result. But that all got pied and Ruiz Ahmed got a weird torture scene that went nowhere

Yeah that was odd.

forest Whittaker wrote:

you are going to lose your mind and your children's mind and YOUR CHILLLLLLLDREEEEEEENS CHILDRENS MIIIIIINDS (for five minutes)

monkey

The nods and winks and all that stuff were just indicative of the creative bankruptcy of the whole film to me, rather than being specifically offensive in themselves. No new ideas, nothing interesting, just X-Wings and Blue Milk and that guy who said that thing in that scene and regurgitating everything for ever and ever.

mistercrayon

I wanted a better look at that woolly yeti thing. Looked like it might be cute.

GooberTheHat

mistercrayon wrote:

Paul the sparky wrote:

I loved the Robbit to be fair, a heap of HK-47 about him. But using him as comic relief doesn't work if you're aiming for darkness does it?

I dunno a bit of matter of fact gallows in a suicide mission can create an increased bond in the crew. An ever tightening siege mentality.

Yup, black humor in those situations is perfect.

b0r1s

Sorry, love his music, but he sounds like a twat.

http://metro.co.uk/2016/12/23/john-williams-has-never-seen-star-wars-despite-composing-the-iconic-theme-6341556/

Matt_82

Really? I would have thought it quite a common thing. I think when you're that involved in it there's no way you can enjoy it the way others do.

b0r1s

I get the idea that if you are up to your neck in it. But FFS 1977 and he couldn't have watched one of them to see what the fuss is about. Sounds like elitism to me.

Tempy

Maybe he doesn't like SciFi

EvilRedEye

Clicking through to the original article, he sounds very self-deprecating and seems to be comparing his work unfavourably to Beethoven and Mozart. Also, bear in mind he probably has seen the original footage over and over again until it got dull, just not the final product.

b0r1s

But that's the point. To never see the finished article seems crazy to me.

Tempy

Crazy to you maybe. For my latest Uni project I struggled to sit through its 11 minutes for the Nth time, after working on it for near 40 hours, over a few weeks, so I handed the render in with an error. Sometimes when you're close to something you just get tired of it.

b0r1s

Hence why I said crazy to me temps. Like I said I get it at the time. You are in the thick of it. But to never go back and look at it even after 40 years?

Matt_82

It was, "sounds like a twat", rather than "crazy to me" that you opened with.

[Deleted User]

I still cringe at anything creative I've been involved in, regardless of the passage of time.

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