Politics of the Free - It’s because Democrats, stupid. - The Bear and Badger

Escape

GooberTheHat wrote:

Also from dusty memory, but didn't he talk his advisors and generals down from an invasion of Cuba, and negotiate a deal to descalate with the Russians?

I'm sure I read the opposite — that he was hovering over the button until last-minute intel arrived, and that his advisers were strongly against, even prior to that. Ted Rogers stood down.

GooberTheHat

Maybe I've remembered it wrong then, or am conflating it with an incident (and obviously not jfk) in the Korean war? I'm not sure.

JonB

Escape wrote:

Ted Rogers stood down.

He didn't want 3-2-1 to be taken as a count down.

GooberTheHat

From the http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/coldwar/kennedy_cuban_missile_01.shtml BBC

In the first day's debates, everyone favoured bombing Cuba. The only differences concerned the scale of attack. Kennedy, Bundy, and some others spoke of a 'surgical strike' solely against the missile sites. 'It corresponds to "the punishment fits the crime" in political terms', said Bundy. Others joined the chiefs of staff in insisting that an attack should also take out air defence sites and bombers, so as to limit losses of US aircraft and prevent an immediate air reprisal against US bases in Florida.

By the third day, 18 October, another option had come to the fore. The under secretary of state, George Ball, had commented that a US surprise attack on Cuba would be '... like Pearl Harbor. It's the kind of conduct that one might expect of the Soviet Union. It is not conduct that one expects of the United States.' Robert Kennedy and Secretary of State Dean Rusk concurred, Rusk observing that the decision-makers could carry 'the mark of Cain' on their brows for the rest of their lives. To meet this concern and to obtain time for gaining support from other nations, there developed the idea of the President's publicly announcing the presence of Soviet missiles in Cuba, ordering a blockade to prevent the introduction of further missiles, and demanding that the Soviets withdraw the missiles already there. (Both for legal reasons and for resonance with Franklin Roosevelt's 'Quarantine Address' of 1937, the term 'quarantine' was substituted for 'blockade'.)

To those of Kennedy's advisers who still favoured quick use of military force (the 'hawks' in later classification), this quarantine constituted an ultimatum. If Khrushchev did not capitulate within a day or two, a US air attack on Cuba would follow, followed before long by an invasion. For those in the ExComm who would later be classed as 'doves,' the quarantine bought time for possibly developing some diplomatic solution.

LarryDavid

[Deleted User]

Well things are winding up in Syria for the Yanks, they can't be seen rebuilding a country so in the words of the late great Michael Jackson

You wanna be starting something
Gotta be starting something

equinox_code

Can you imagine the tweets

GooberTheHat

We have many many talented people working to solve the nuclear winter. Who knew nuclear war would be so bad, no one knew! Sad...

GooberTheHat

... But many people are saying that this was the quickest world war in history, so we minimised the suffering for millions.

[Deleted User]

Skin burnt orange and melting, hair being torn from the scalp, blowing in the wind of the fallout. Eyes squinting from the scorching light. Mutated appendages shrinking.

Trump will fit right in.

hunk

Nuclear fallout?
Not convinced there is such a thing.
It sounds like a msm lie if you ask me!

LarryDavid

Fake news, fake nukes.

Brooks

Clinton pls go

Yossarian

I saw people creating pisstake mockups of that on Twitter, but had no idea where it had come from. Thanks for the source.

hunk

Jesus H. Christ, this really is happening isn't it?
I knew Trump's shit stirring would escalate tensions but a nuclear war?
Fucking impeach the orange cunt, Mueller! Or hire a black ops hitman or whatever. He's done enough damage as is....

hunk

Kim and his nuclear arsenal aren't going anywhere, that much is obvious. The US will have to accept this fact and restart negotiations with N-Korea either through an intermediary (China, Russia) or directly.
The other option is war and nobody wants that.

Yossarian

Trump might. He is insane.

Vela

Yossarian wrote:

Trump might. He is insane.

Scenario: Trump launches a first strike nuke on DPRK.

What are the odds that that would result in impeachment and is there any mechanism for an emergency/rapid takeover by someone not quite as insane (Pence isn't smart but he isnt reckless).

Any chance they could abort a missile (republicans wont abort anything) strike mid-flight, or would the world be looking at a mineshaft gap?

I_R

A nuclear first strike from the US isn't the risk, a conventional attack is much more likely and would have bad enough consequences. This isn't the sort of thing that Republicans are going to turn on him over either, not at the start anyway.

dynamiteReady

Running against the current thread somewhat, is this quote from Trump in a recent speech, brought into sharp relief by rumours of a plan to rescind the rights of illegal immigrant children granted amnesty to live in the US by a law that Obama created (DACA):

Trump, unbelievably said, not wrote:

...we're gonna show great heart, it's a difficult subject for me, incredible kids mostly, brought here in such a way, we're gonna deal with it with heart, I'll have to convince a lot of politicians, I love these kids"

I do suspect that came from his heart...

What's going on in this presidency?

Is there still hope?...

[Deleted User]

Trump can be prevented from pressing the button at any point he is deemed to be mentally unstable.
It is about the only thing that can stop a strike if Trump decides to press it.
I don't think that was written to stop bell ends, more to prevent the button being pressed if the President was suffering some form of psychosis or hallucination or indeed pissed or on drugs.
Of course the button doesn't really exist, someone gets the order and hands it to someone who presses the button so they could of course ignore the order.

I very much doubt there would be time to impeach him, swear in Pence and shoot down a missile before NK launches their retaliation.

If they want to impeach him now is the time.

[Deleted User]

hunk wrote:

Jesus H. Christ, this really is happening isn't it?

Nope. Doubt it.

[Deleted User]

China will mediate soon enough, increase sanctions and basically tell Kim to wind his neck in.
NK cannot win this, any missile launch is suicide and will likely end up with a unified Korea playing lapdog to the U.S. China can't have that but neither do they have any interest in WW3.
China needs North Korea but they don't need the headaches Kim is causing so more likely they will do whatever necessary to bring him back into line.

cockbeard

No fighting in the war room

Kow

Kim's not going to take any option which makes him seem weak. Good diplomacy will let him come to the table and feel like he's got some kind of victory. I don't think Trump is capable of that.

[Deleted User]

Putin is speaking the most sense right now.

Escape

Kow wrote:

Kim's not going to take any option which makes him seem weak. Good diplomacy will let him come to the table and feel like he's got some kind of victory. I don't think Trump is capable of that.

Aye, that's what I was hinting at with Goobs:

By the third day, 18 October, another option had come to the fore. The under secretary of state, George Ball, had commented that a US surprise attack on Cuba would be '... like Pearl Harbor. It's the kind of conduct that one might expect of the Soviet Union. It is not conduct that one expects of the United States.' Robert Kennedy and Secretary of State Dean Rusk concurred, Rusk observing that the decision-makers could carry 'the mark of Cain' on their brows for the rest of their lives.

Khrushchev's withdrawal saved millions. But his was a powerful country withdrawing from a satellite, and Castro was no Kim.

Kow

The recordings of those discussions with Kennedy are all available. He basically launched the nukes and was held back at the last minute by an alternative, which also allowed Khruschev to come out not looking weak. I can't imagine Trump has any of the tact necessary. The negotiators etc could probably come to some agreement only for Trump to tweet Kim we're coming for you right now, bad man.

Gremill

Trump clearly has some form of dementia or degenerative brain disease, but no one in the public sphere seems able to have a serious conversation about it.

Nuclear war won't happen - but if I were the South Koreans it would be the largest arrangement of conventional artillery in the world pointing at me that I'd be more worried about.

WorKid

I'd be worried about Trump invading the wrong Korea.

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