Maybe the reason I feel European is that my parents and my grandparents are.
3 grandparents born in London, 1 in Glasgow, 1 parent is from London the other born in Singapore.
All RAF. Stationed in Germany, Cyprus and Ireland over the years, with people who obviously were stationed all over the world. Along with brief postings in Hong Kong, the Falklands and India.
A transient lifestyle that means roots didn't mean anything. I grew up in Milton Keynes, a town no one was from because it didn't exist when our patents were born.


People should move around more.

Andy wrote:

Still the same. We didn't have many holidays when I was growing up. Christ, I remember caravaning in Elgin. Elgin. Other years we didn't get away at all. That's life.

So because you didn't get it no one else should?

If we extend the thinking further then we're basically saying that private companies who build schools know what's better for children than parents do. Ok tere aren't many free schools yet but there soon will be, so that state know better?

If that's the case take every child into care at birth, think of the amount of social workers we'd need. That's a lefty caring sharing professional job, we'd need tens of thousands of them. And to build massive dormitories, you could be into a winner actually Andy

Which is reflected in the polling!

Also, I do remember the shy Tory thing, of course I do, but this isn't a poll of future intentions, it's a survey of actions in the past. It's not equivalent.

cockbeard wrote:

Yes but even the exit polls were still not showing the majority they earnt.

WTF are you talking about? They did: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11590766/Election-exit-polls-predicts-David-Cameron-on-course-to-stay-in-Number-10.html

I'm completely ok with less well-off kids (all of them actually, rich ones too) getting a week or two off school for the purposes of foreign travel. I've got sympathy for the teachers who have a lot to pack in and find it disruptive to have kids disappear on them, and damaging to the kid for trying to keep up with the volume of tests and shite they have to get them through.

In a sensible education system where you're trying to make a rounded, enlightened person, this isn't an issue.

monkey wrote:

I'm completely ok with less well-off kids (all of them actually, rich ones too) getting a week or two off school for the purposes of foreign travel. I've got sympathy for the teachers who have a lot to pack in and find it disruptive to have kids disappear on them, and damaging to the kid for trying to keep up with the volume of tests and shite they have to get them through. In a sensible education system where you're trying to make a rounded, enlightened person, this isn't an issue.

It seems unfair to let kids swan off to foriegn climes and expect the poorest ones to turn up everyday because they can't afford to. The main issue has always been that the kids from the poorest backgrounds have a pretty shit attendance rate, and if that means sacrificing a cheaper holiday for those that can afford it, well in the name of fairness, tough shit. Besides, this wasn't an absolute judgement in law because the Head can still give approval for exceptions. You're then relying on the Head to be a rounded enlightened person, who values social justice and the empowerment of education to lift the poor which is another matter entirely, but it seems a fair balance.

cockbeard wrote:

Go on then Andy, why should I be obligated to send my children to your government school that has a national curriculum that people who might not understand the needs of my culture gave decided is the right teachings for everybody

Tbf you don't because you can home school if you feel motivated enough to do it, and feel social interaction with other children is not a thing you can learn from. My boy who is six has already learnt more about Islam than I probably will. He seems to get Easter too which I still don't quite understand. They're also teaching him maths which is just great. Schools are surely a good thing, a social thing, a cultural thing that crosses divides.

We've a strong consensus on useful learning for under-11s, so our early education tends to be really good in my experience. And those kids have spent the least amount of time exposed to potential racism and the like at home. I find it really disappointing that most of the kids I went to school with are Facebook Skips now, because we were encouraged to be the second inclusive generation.

It took a couple of white generations for black immigrants to be accepted, but eventually some good things happened. It'll take a lot longer for Muslims due to their geoconcentrations and Islam, and we'll see history repeat, as many of today's openminded white kids become increasingly hostile as they grow up.

Our NC then becomes woolly and exam-focused when its kids are at their most capable, and that still saddens me twenty years later. If not for the level of disruption and poor teaching in a high number of state schools (not exclusively state, obviously), so many 15-year-olds could handle degree-level learning in technical subjects.

I would've found learning to program in Python and variants of C much easier back then than I do now (although I'd have avoided any Pi classes at the time because of my social group). I've spoken before about a great support teacher we had who taught the less-bright kids to build walls, solder, work on engines and gardens... But he was sacked by proxy when the Head withdrew funding for his team. The foyer was tarted-up instead. Now there's a life lesson.

Still, I planted some flowers. ('Cause I wanted a go on the wheelbarrow, but hey.)

I'm not remotely sure that's the truth.

I'm not sure that anyone's ever believed in democracy as a realised thing, just in pursuing it for whatever ends. It's like a ghostball on a cricket pitch, flying around in our vision while never existing. The closest we get is a little say over the players.

hunk wrote:

The whole point is to slowly erode people's believe in the system of democracy. Effectively, trolling democracy if you will. Mission accomplished?

If that were the point then it succeeded long ago

Democracy (as we know it) only upholds the positions of those power, it doesn't challenge their authority nor does it force any kind of change. Look at the dwindling numbers of people voting over the last twenty years, democracy has already been trolled hard

Foreign powers bullshit, same excuse that Trump has just made, I think it makes us look amateurish and puerile. If they really were worried about foreign powers influencing people they'd close down Murdoch. We've berated, sanctioned and threatened military force on countries who failed to hold their elections correctly, now we're crying foul play on something you'd have thought we'd be pretty good at being as we've had over 300 years experience at it

cockbeard wrote:

hunk wrote:

The whole point is to slowly erode people's believe in the system of democracy. Effectively, trolling democracy if you will. Mission accomplished?

If that were the point then it succeeded long ago

Democracy (as we know it) only upholds the positions of those power, it doesn't challenge their authority nor does it force any kind of change. Look at the dwindling numbers of people voting over the last twenty years, democracy has already been trolled hard

Foreign powers bullshit, same excuse that Trump has just made, I think it makes us look amateurish and puerile. If they really were worried about foreign powers influencing people they'd close down Murdoch. We've berated, sanctioned and threatened military force on countries who failed to hold their elections correctly, now we're crying foul play on something you'd have thought we'd be pretty good at being as we've had over 300 years experience at it

Yes indeedy.
We take pride in our democratic tradition yet won't hesitate installing 'democratic' puppet states if need be when it suits us. That's the irony here.

room to maneuver in the international space

To what end? Are their balls a bit sweaty or summat

Only thing I can picture at this point is international strongmanning to dupe disgruntled rubes at home, which I guess you can get away with more of when you can be surer of less retaliation but that's way more nth-dimensional-chess than I really expect can be practiced. Easier to bet on idiocy.

Idiocy is still dangerous enough to want correction.

Brooks wrote:

Only thing I can picture at this point is international strongmanning to dupe disgruntled rubes at home, which I guess you can get away with more of when you can be surer of less retaliation but that's way more nth-dimensional-chess than I really expect can be practiced. Easier to bet on idiocy.

Emperors' new chess.