Brexit: Boris' Big Belgian Bangers - The Bear and Badger

Hodge360

Edit,sorry I read wrong.

davyK

Sinn Fein stoking the fires about the border some more. Local radio fizzing this morning.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/28/more-security-on-irish-border-could-mean-civil-disobedience-sinn-fein-says

Interesting point made is that a hard border will be the result of the RoI being compelled to put one in place by Brussels.

hunk

50 billion for Brexit.
Sadly, it won't solve the reason why people voted Brexit in the first place: the ever growing gap between the haves and the have nots.
With the exact same politicians at the helm pre- and post Brexit, matters won't change. In fact, it will only get worse once the depression hits. The only ones profiting will be the UK oligarchs who funded Leave and the Russians who will have a bit more room to maneuvre in eastern europe with the UK and EU distracted.
The regular working joe's and jane's will be the one's paying the full fat price.

davyK

No matter what happens (recessions, crunches, Brexits etc.) there will be people who will profit from it. Not because these events are by design (maybe some are but I'm not indulging any fantasies) but because they have the resources in order to predict with a measure of accuracy and act upon what happens.

The rest of us , take a bashing , and most of us carry on. Such is the way of things.

hunk

It's not fantasy, it's called 'seedy politics'.
And it's fucking ruthless.

It's admirable you're willing to take the bashing but geez, it's painful to see.
Not gonna lie, I've been posting with you guys for over 10 years so you're kindof like extended family to me.
Watching you do this to yourselves is at times almost unbearable.

davyK

You can get annoyed about it but until we see what is actually going to happen I'm not sure what we can do.

Anger is an energy - indeed.

Problem is keeping it up . Apathy is the enemy.

What is the most annoying thing about this is the freedom of movement for trade/ employment being hit on the head. It was a strapline of the leave campaign and it is a major sticking point now.

People started blaming immigrant workers when the main reason they are hurting is the situation caused by the banking industry, whose denizens are carrying on unscathed. It's as if we have forgot all about that.

I can get why people want to leave the EU because of the undemocratic power of the commission. I can see why some want to leave in order to take advantage and control of trade agreements (though that works both ways - not sure what I think about cheap US meat hitting the market), but to do it to try and control our borders in a global economy is ridiculous.

davyK

And as for £40-50b Drop in the ocean in the scheme of things. That's the false NHS promise for 3 years maybe? Get that out of the way and move onto the real stuff.

[Deleted User]

Genuine question.
If this 50bn has been agreed to be owed now, does that not mean the EU could pursue us for it even in the event of No Deal?

acemuzzy

No. Cos we'd be funding it via ongoing contributions.

[Deleted User]

So no deal still involves giving money to the eu?
Do the plebs know about this?

[Deleted User]

Sorry, answering my own question a bit here.
Looking at this it doesn't seem like commitments that are easy to walk away from.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/29/brexit-divorce-bill-how-much-is-it-and-what-is-it-for

davyK

It was another practicality that was whitewashed in that truly dreadful campaign from which neither side came out of with any credit.

monkey

Liveinadive wrote:

So no deal still involves giving money to the eu? Do the plebs know about this?

If we truly walked away, they'd struggle to recover the money through any court, but it would cost us more in damage to the economy. The plebs seem to think that no deal means paying them no money and stuff carrying on about the same as before. A few weeks ago the audience booed some Labour MP on question time when she said that no deal meant planes couldn't fly into the EU. They think it's scaremongering. A no deal where the planes still fly is still a deal, just not on trade.

It's not their fault though. Who has got the time to look into this stuff really. Not Joe Punchclock who's working 50 hour weeks, looking after two kids and gets about an hour of free time a day, which he doesn't want to spend looking into the in and outs of bilateral treaties underpinning shared air travel routes.

Diluted Dante

So you're saying we need experts?

Shit.

WorKid

No Deal is actually much more likely to mean FUCK let's carry on as we are now for a bit. Maybe that's a deal. It's all semantics.

No Deal was never a possible outcome. Bad deal is the only inevitable outcome.

What's interesting is that for some people some agreements, let's say passporting of financial services or agreeing to insist on mobile phone roaming deals, is a good deal. For others it's a bad deal.

Basically nobody will be happy - either we'll lose things we had or we'll not gain things they wanted. Even UKIP will think it's a bad deal because we didn't get Calais back or something.

WorKid

Here it comes. The land border question finally needs to be answered in the next few days. I predict a shitstorm that could even end the government, quickly or slowly.

Where do the EU rules end and UK begin?

At the actual border? Well good luck getting the Irish on side. No trade deal. Government ends.
In the sea? Brexitwats won't accept that and the DUP definitely won't. Government ends.
Nowhere? We remain in the SM and CU? Well you've already ruled that out so the government ends.

[Deleted User]

Nah, I am sure they thought all this through long before the referendum was even called.

Diluted Dante

There is definitely a plan. We're are going to have a red white and blue Brexit. And Brexit will mean Brexit.

[Deleted User]

It is almost like spending 6 months arguing over the divorce bill then agreeing to the exact same divorce bill was a waste of time that could have been spent on the more complicated issues.

Anyway, only a few weeks until Christmas. It will all blow over by the new year. Probably.

Diluted Dante

No, that time earned us a great victory.

[Deleted User]

I yeah, forgot Boris plucked a sum of 100bn out of his giant, grotesque arse.

WorKid

Looks like they've done it.

WorKid

49. The United Kingdom remains committed to protecting North-South cooperation and to. its guarantee of avoiding a hard border. Any future arrangements must be compatible
with these overarching requirements.

The United Kingdom's intention is to achieve
these objectives through the overall EU-UK relationship. Should this not be possible,
the United Kingdom will propose specific solutions to address the unique circumstances of the island of Ireland.

In the absence of agreed solutions, the United
Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the all-island economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement.

50. In the absence of agreed solutions, as set out in the previous paragraph, the United Kingdom will ensure that no new regulatory barriers develop between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom, unless, consistent with the 1998 Agreement, the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly agree that distinct arrangements are appropriate for Northern Ireland.

In all circumstances, the United Kingdom will continue to ensure the same unfettered access for Northern Ireland's businesses to the whole of the United Kingdom internal market.

acemuzzy

So vague. Oh well, there's still hope it will all fall apart later.

WorKid

Less vague than I expected. There's still the

How????

question of course. But this is a big milestone. I'm feeling a bit more positive.

Incidentally the text also confirms UK and NI are leaving SM and CU.

acemuzzy

Nothing is confirmed until everything is confirmed

Diluted Dante

Less vague than you expected???

Were you expecting it just to say "no hard border, take back control lol"

monkey

We’ll be leaving the SM and CU just as soon as someone can work out how to put a hard border between two countries without actually putting it anywhere.

WorKid

Diluted Dante wrote:

Less vague than you expected???

Were you expecting it just to say "no hard border, take back control lol"

More or less yes!

1. We will have our cake
2. We will also eat the cake.

We'll tell you how later.

[Deleted User]

I'm browsing this thread. The bit where BHD says we can just do a deal like Switzerland and be out of the fishing policy (landlocked country), foreign relations and defence (neutrality established for centuries) is amazing.

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories