dynamiteReady wrote:

Also, pop quiz question... Straight out of HIgNfy... To who is this quote attributed?...

“Time and time again, information is withheld from the public for no good reason other than to spare the blushes of the powerful.”

:}

Is it Peter Molyneux?

At a guess, dickhead Davis, at some point in the past when that suited him.

I'd hold a second referendum on that basis.

I have been thinking through a possible timeline of events.

Phase one.
Davis and May present a total shite of a deal that involves a hard border in Ireland.
The Irish reject it. As do Lab,Lib and SNP with the thinking being they can more easily negotiate a trade deal later from a clean slate once in power as a coalition.

Phase Two
The landslide rejection of the deal results in a vote of no confidence, General Elecection and a coalition gov not involving the Tories.

With the best intentions gov returns to EU to renegotiate a deal, which the EU are open to.

However in this time billions are being spent on writing laws, building borders and lorry parks. Austerity continues to bite as solving it takes a back seat to wooing the EU.

Phase 3
Tensions rise in Ireland.
Austerity on one side of the border is juxtaposed by an increase in wealth as the other trade shifts heavily to RoI. This creates a Berlin wall lite.
We will be shown Flossy visuals of border stations that look a cross between a service station, Asda car park and Heathrow terminal 5. The reality, at least for the first 5 years will be concrete barriers, chain link fences and insecure lorry parks in Calais more vulnerable than ever to illegal immigrants breaking into lorries.

Those nostalgic for the days of the troubles who have sat dormant see a new generation to recruit marches start first before things get nasty.

Phase 4
Under pressure of returning to the bad days gov is forced into giving an Indyref to Northern Ireland.
They have the option to remain, Indy or join RoI.
Joining RoI wins landslide as it gets them back into EU and pulls down the borders quickest.

Phase 5
Scotland want a piece of the action and also vote yes on an Indyref. Scotland fast track to join EU as, since brexit, they kept what laws they had control over inline with EU laws.

End result.
England and Wales now surrounded by EU nations taking any and all passing trade on it's way to Europe.
We attempt to rejoin the EU a decade later, much poorer and paying more in without Thatcher's rebate.

What if the UK joined the Republic of Ireland?

legaldinho wrote:

If you think joining RoI will solve the NI situation, you're deluded. Just swap a majority for a minority innit.

If you think people won't vote to make their lives worse you must be deluded.

Hodge360 wrote:

Surely Scotland on its own wouldn't reach the criteria to join the EU?

It doesn't, but don't let that put Salmon and Sturgeon off, wow, who's next Perch, Pike, Shibunkin?

If we leave the EU without a trading arrangement, Scotland ain’t going anywhere. They will struggle to get into the EU with their deficit, that Brexit will make worse. And they might eg be paying two sets of tariffs to get their lorries into Europe if they left the UK.

Yeah correct Muzzy.
Tory deal is rejected which defaults to no deal.


I wasn't aware of Scotland not meeting terms of the EU so can scratch that part. Still leaves us somewhat in limbo surrounded by something we aren't a part of.

That is roughly the figure it has always been really. Somewhere between £40bil and £50bil.
They chanced their arm at 20 and Boris tried scare tactics at 100.

It sounds a lot of money, it is a lot of money, but if it buys a decent trade deal then it is worth it. The idea the EU has hold us to ransom though is a bit of an exageration, divided between 27 countries (not that it will be dished out as such) it is a drop in the ocean really.

What criteria does Scotland not meet?

Liveinadive wrote:

That is roughly the figure it has always been really. Somewhere between £40bil and £50bil. They chanced their arm at 20 and Boris tried scare tactics at 100. It sounds a lot of money, it is a lot of money, but if it buys a decent trade deal then it is worth it. The idea the EU has hold us to ransom though is a bit of an exageration, divided between 27 countries (not that it will be dished out as such) it is a drop in the ocean really.

It doesn't buy a decent trade deal though. It buys (maybe, depending on NI border) access to start discussing a trade deal. Seeing as we've been hammered in every round of this so far, that's unlikely to start swinging round in the UK's favour either. 

It's bananas we're doing this. Pure madness. If we'd had a referendum on properly funding the NHS, it would have been a landslide and the money could have been used for that. We could actually solve* one of our biggest problems in this country. But no, fuck it in the bin instead chasing some mad dream.

*well not 'solve', it's all debt. But at least you'd have something to show for it.

monkey wrote:

None for the EU but all new members seem to have to agree to join the Euro and they're way off from meeting the criteria for that. Their deficit is too big. And at that point (having left the UK) would be probably even worse off. Or they'd have to want to join but have their currency managed by England. Which doesn't seem like something the EU would like much.

Several countries are technically obligated to join the Euro, but the EU isn't actually making them. There is no time limit on having to join, so it's considered this can basically be put off indefinitely. You have to agree to join only when you meet the criteria, you don't have to meet it when you join the EU.

Sweden has been avoiding it for the entire time it existed.

True, I was thinking more of the recent applicants. Sweden came in just after their economic crisis so possibly it wasn't a big deal. I'm sure the eu would have loved to get the UK into euro though