God of War
  • Was on the tube and lost internet so it looks like I'm piggybacking on cinty and uncle. Team squeezers ftw.
  • I was wondering how it was going to handle the continuous shot thing across platforms with different loading times, and the Guardian review suggests it's by hampering the PS5 version to keep them in line:
    2018’s God of War’s most astonishing feat of technical wizardry was constructing the entire game as one continuous shot, with no loading screens and no interruptions, making you feel totally present in the journey. It did this by putting plenty of narrow passageways and low tunnels and other confined spaces in-between its areas, to disguise that the game was loading the next one. Ragnarök repeats this trick – even more impressively, this time, as we sometimes follow different characters and not just Kratos – but on the PlayStation 5 it’s all rather unnecessary, as that console is powerful enough to do away with loading times entirely. The forced moments of slowdown felt strangely ponderous and old-fashioned. I am looking forward to seeing what Santa Monica Studio will achieve without the almost 10-year-old PlayStation 4’s technical constraints to account for.
    So this is a weird one. Cerny mentioned the whole squeeze through gap to hide asset loading thing during his Road to PlayStation 5 technical talk, and it's become this commonly known thing since then. The problem is that this is just one of the uses of the Gap Squeeze and I've seen a fair bit of push-back from devs recently when gamers / journos get hung up on the gap = hiding loading thing. Yes, the gap squeeze can be an asset dump / load opportunity, but it's apparently far more common for it to be able managing player progression and game pace. How do you funnel players from one combat arena to the next? How do you make sure they don't go backwards once the fight kicks off? How do you separate 2 puzzle spaces? How do you ensure that the player camera is facing in a direction from a tightly constrained space to reveal a surprisingly beautiful vista? The answer to all the above? The gap squeeze.  The gap squeeze is also useful as it informs the player that the gap = forward, so if they want to finish exploring an area, they should do so now. I often get frustrated when presented 2 "doors" and not knowing which one will trigger a cut-scene / un-go-backable event. The gap squeeze alleviates that. Point is, it's *most of the time* a creative choice by level and encounter designers.  Is that to say that they don't hide load screens in GoW? No, entirely possible they're used for that too. But GoW's a very deliberately designed game and when there were clearly load screens being hidden, i'd argue it was more obvious - the fast travel replacing mystical realm, for example.
    I think you're talking about something different. There are gap squeezes in the new Plague Tale for instance, which is current gen only, that achieve the kind of break up you're talking about. Then there are buffer sequences placed to hide loading, of which there were plenty in the last GoW.

    My point is that it sounds like those are back in the new one, and my assumption is that if the game were PS5 only they wouldn't be as long or as frequent.
  • I mean, i'm talking last gen. Even last gen a lot of devs were using Gap Squeeze as level design, not loading. This has been stated by people who worked at Insomniac, Crystal Dynamics, Naughty Dog and a bunch of others. 

    I'm also not sure where the idea comes from that shows Plague Tale: Requiem's  gap squeezes = current gen intentional design but GoW Ragnarok's don't. Yes, PT:R is "current gen only" but it's also on PC and the minimum spec is designed for is a HDD and GTX 970. Decidedly last gen.
  • I mean, i'm talking last gen. Even last gen a lot of devs were using Gap Squeeze as level design, not loading. This has been stated by people who worked at Insomniac, Crystal Dynamics, Naughty Dog and a bunch of others.
    I know. But GoW in particular had longish sequences that weren't just minor bouts of gap squeezing to cover for loading times, in part because of it was doing everything in a single shot. They wouldn't be required on a PS5 only version.
    I'm also not sure where the idea comes from that shows Plague Tale: Requiem's  gap squeezes = current gen intentional design but GoW Ragnarok's don't. Yes, PT:R is "current gen only" but it's also on PC and the minimum spec is designed for is a HDD and GTX 970. Decidedly last gen.

    Fair enough, I hadn't thought about non-SSD PCs. But the sequences in PT:R are short, just a few seconds, and they primarily feel like they're intended to bookend areas.
  • Good (or God if you will) News! The wife is out saturday night so I'm in God of War: Ragnarok all night!
    The Forum Herald™
  • I've not had time to play more Bayo 3 so need to find the time and finish that first.  Most likely won't get to play GoWR until next week!
    I am a FREE. I am not MAN. A NUMBER.
  • JonB wrote:
    I mean, i'm talking last gen. Even last gen a lot of devs were using Gap Squeeze as level design, not loading. This has been stated by people who worked at Insomniac, Crystal Dynamics, Naughty Dog and a bunch of others.
    I know. But GoW in particular had longish sequences that weren't just minor bouts of gap squeezing to cover for loading times, in part because of it was doing everything in a single shot. They wouldn't be required on a PS5 only version.

    Ah, I see where you're coming from. 

    I still think there's some assumptions there:
    1. GoW had some longer squeezes / shimmies than other comparable games
    2. They're long because the single shot required loading in the background
    3. PS5 stuff loads faster
    4. PS5 squeezes could be shorter

    But that still assumes that the purpose of a longer shimmy / squeeze would be for loading. In GoW, environmental traversal was set out in a "building code" rule book where certain types of environmental traversal were set to hard metrics. For example - a crawlspace with a slight incline then decline would be set to 5m long. Jumps designed to give the chance to let the camera reset would be 3m tall. Shorts stoops for discovering hidden chests in an area, longer stoops and crawls for leaving those areas. Long climbs were positioned to allow character banter... 

    (Dunno why the vid doesn't seem to load, but here's a GDC talk on GoW level design)

    Loading will happen simultaneously around that, of course, but the environmental design doc seems to have bene clearly laid out with specific interactions in mind in service of level design first and foremost.
  • Cuppa tea, some Squeeze, and yer mum.
  • FranticPea
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    I've cancelled my pre order over squeezegate. It was a deal breaker.
  • FranticPea wrote:
    I've cancelled my pre order over squeezegate. It was a deal breaker.

    Bloody Series S.
  • FranticPea
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    If they can remove the squeezes with a patch for a goty edition in the future I'm back in.
  • Can't believe I've gotten this far in life without deep thinking on gap squeezes.

    Here's me just trying to work out how to do the combat properly.
  • I had two fruitfully successful gap squeezes in my life.
    I am a FREE. I am not MAN. A NUMBER.
  • FranticPea
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    Any hidden chests?
  • Blimey lol. 

    I actually felt like the gap squeezes in God of War 2018 were pretty well handled. There are maaany games that do it more obviously... off the top of my head; Halo CE, Gears of War, Tomb Raider etc etc. 

    I'd always welcome a creative/narrative solution to hide a load screen though, despite how clunky it can be sometimes. 

    We are spoilt rotten these days with load times. Used to have to wait 10+ mins of wavy lines on Commodore 64.
  • Bring back retro games during loading screens. Or even better, faux retro games. Would GoW be better with an 8-bit styled GoW to play instead of gap squeezing? Yes.
  • Namco actually patented that, I'm sure?
  • Gap squeezes and repeated canned animations can fuck off.
  • FranticPea
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    Exactly. Fuck the squeeze. It's 2023 ffs. Sony are the WORST.
  • Its arrived! 

    Installing now but probably can't play until later.
  • b0r1s
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    Hopefully it’s already installed and sitting on my PS5 when I get home later.
  • FranticPea
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    Is it out today?
  • b0r1s
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    Guessing it’s midnight unlock.
  • First hour done.

    Its very much the same as the first in terms of gameplay/presentation.
  • FranticPea
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    How much squeeze?
  • Paul the sparky
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    I'll squeeze you in a minute
  • Is squeeze worse than crunch now?
  • There is actually a lot of squeeze within the first hour as it funnels you through the opening sections.

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