I would rather tlthe very occasional "wrong" decision (given it rarely happens, would get caught by the ref if blatant, at some point becomes objective anyway unless you have Hawkeye in the boots) than losing the free-flowing nature of football.

I know which is the bigger if those problems for me.

The free flowing nature of a penalty kick that decides the World Cup?

I reckon that's exactly the type of decision you really want to be right, and you should use all technology available to do so.

I mean we may need to agree to disagree. You value correctness over other aspects that for me making football a great sport to watch, I feel the opposite, it's a subjective preference.

Paul the sparky wrote:

Wrong decisions "lessen football" more than taking a minute or two to get decisions right.

Some do, some don't. Or are you advocating a two minute wait for every even slightly questionable decision?

I think he's advocating a wait to make sure the right team wins the World Cup.

It's always gutting of course to think your team have scored, only to have the goal chalked off. But if we value that above all else, then allow any goal to stand even if it's offside, or the attacker fouled someone to score.

JonB wrote:

Diluted Dante wrote:

The keeper shouldnt come off their line. Its a pretty wild idea I know.

And there's no way it could happen accidentally, because of course keepers are always looking at their own feet when a penalty is taken. 

Some things just don't need that kind of precision. If the ref/assistant sees a blatant violation they can call it. If not, it's not worth the hassle. It makes the game worse.

And this is where it falls down. What's blatant? That will differ from person to person. You'll find some games a ref will let someone off for leaving the line, and in another, a different ref won't, even though they've gone the exact same distance. You have to either have a rule about where the keeper can be, or not.

Keepers don't need to look down at their feet for the duration of the penalty. They just need to see where they are standing at the beginning, if they move both feet forwards they're off their line. It's really not rocket science. 

Again I ask, why do you think keepers should be allowed to come off their line? Why is it important that they are able to do so?

Paul the sparky wrote:

So you'd rather have incorrect decisions and the wrong team going through? It's more important to let people have their first reactions than it is to upset them and make the right call?

I don't see it as a wrong decision. Some rules were never meant to be subject to that kind of marginal judgement. For me, keepers having to be on the line before a pen is kicked means not blatantly gaining an advantage by moving forward in a way that the ref can clearly see in real-time. Did anyone ever feel cheated because a keeper was just slightly off his line in the past? I don't think so. It wasn't a rule that required precision measurement (unlike the ball crossing the line), because it had no tangible effect on outcomes.

I will leave this now though. No point saying it a million times. Edit: and I can't think how else to put it.

Let's just say I think VAR has had a shitty impact on a number of big games this season. It's getting in the way more often than it's doing anything worthwhile.

For PKs, couldnt they just have a small box that defines the keeper's start point? Nothing wrong with a keeper springing about ready to go within a small 2' x 6" box like a boxer on the ball of his or her feet.
Given they have to contend with panenka's and evil jabulani balls on big tournament events its fair to have a degree of rolling start when the penalty taker can use all sorts of mind games and fake outs.

Vela wrote:

For PKs, couldnt they just have a small box that defines the keeper's start point? Nothing wrong with a keeper springing about ready to go within a small 2' x 6" box like a boxer on the ball of his or her feet. Given they have to contend with panenka's and evil jabulani balls on big tournament events its fair to have a degree of rolling start when the penalty taker can use all sorts of mind games and fake outs.

The keeper can jump about all they like providing that one foot is still in line with the goal line.

Change the rule so they have to be on the line at time the taker plants their standing foot, rather than when they strike the ball.
That allows keepers to start moving during the kick rather than after it, and they don't get screwed by a clever clogs slowing down and changing direction mid kick only to drag it wide (but get another go)

Filth.

Love it.

JonB wrote:

Paul the sparky wrote:

So you'd rather have incorrect decisions and the wrong team going through? It's more important to let people have their first reactions than it is to upset them and make the right call?

I don't see it as a wrong decision. But it is the wrong decision by the letter of the law. There's no room for interpretation there.

Some rules were never meant to be subject to that kind of marginal judgement. But some are perfect for it, namely the binary "is it a or b?" stuff like is the keeper's foot on the line or over it, which you can prove with a VAR check and you should do just that as there's a goal at stake.

For me, keepers having to be on the line before a pen is kicked means not blatantly gaining an advantage by moving forward in a way that the ref can clearly see in real-time. Did anyone ever feel cheated because a keeper was just slightly off his line in the past? I don't think so. Well you think wrong then, because there was a big thing made of it as recently as the 2016 Euros where we had bullshit like this save:

It wasn't a rule that required precision measurement (unlike the ball crossing the line), because it had no tangible effect on outcomes. Collina disagrees.

Sorry for the formatting but I'm on my phone. It's fine if you don't like VAR or the keeper on the line for pens rule, you can have your opinion on it if it rubs you the wrong way, but let's not wrap it up in bollocks. Keepers coming off their line for pens has always been an issue but refs have either been unable to see it clearly enough or are not sure/strong enough to give the decision. VAR helps them out, so the right call is made. Interestingly, the Croatia v Spain one up there shouldn't even have been a pen in the first place, something else VAR could have cleared up.

The way you’re talking about the goalie being on the line makes it sounds like it was something that was written down on a stone tablet 2000 years ago and that the idea of the rule is to have a rule rather than some pseudo technical way to help decide if some bullshit is happening.

The fact of the matter is even the VAR is limited by the blurriness of the cameras (can you tell if a shoe is touching the top millimetre of grass?) and the distance that the pictures are taken from.

Paul the sparky wrote:

It's fine if you don't like VAR or the keeper on the line for pens rule, you can have your opinion on it if it rubs you the wrong way, but let's not wrap it up in bollocks.

I think I made a pretty straightforward point and explained it clearly a number of times. If you don't agree with it or don't get it, fine. But there's no need for that.

Pens decide games. Games in international tournaments, like the above example in the Croatia v Spain Euro 2016. Bit more than a low level problem, and VAR helping the refs to make the correct calls in important games isn't ballsing it up in any way shape or form.