Paul the sparky wrote:

In as much as everyone is entitled to take offense at everything. He's looked at Larry taking the piss out of the appalling judgement of the Italian FA and instead decided that Larry is having a giggle at racism and helping spread the message that racism is some big joke.

That's not what Larry is doing.

No, but can you not see that it could still be hurtful to someone to see that image being used as the lynch pin of a joke, regardless of intent?

"look at those stupid racist people being racist, they might as well as done this other stupid racist thing right here what I'm doing right now instead, look at the stupid racist thing I'm doing, isn't it funny that they could be so stupid."

A massive over simplification of what has happened I know, but it's essentially what it boils down to.

I don't think any less of Larry for doing it, especially considering his response. Sometimes when we're not directly affected by an issue we fail to appreciate the significance of our own actions.

I do think it was brave and honest of Dyna to say that it affected him, and while he might have come across as confrontational initially, maybe he was just a little pissed off?

Doesn't matter if he's ridiculing them. He's posting a racist joke in doing so. That might seem funny in a forum of white males... but take a peep out of the bubble and it looks a little more sickly.

He's clearly not intended any offense. That doesn't mean we can't all learn something. I certainly feel I have.

I've learned that intent is irrelevant if someone decides to take offense and I'm in trapped in some sort of white man bubble.

The joke didn't seem all that funny to me by the way, I'm not saying it was a knee slapper but I got the point of it. The Italian FA are abysmal, they're the source of offense.

Paul the sparky wrote:

I've learned that intent is irrelevant if someone decides to take offense and I'm in trapped in some sort of white man bubble.

Bit unnecessarily facetious. Nobody is having a go.

And I probably don't even mean barely because there was zero intent.

Edit: Other than good intentions.  So it wasn't even loitering.  I'm off.

GooberTheHat wrote:

Just look at it from the perspective of someone else for a minute ffs Paul. I think you're showing a real lack of empathy here, or being deliberately obtuse because you think we're being all "pc gone mad" or something. Absolute horseshit here Goobs, I've not come anywhere near PC gone mad territory and you know it.

Can you not accept that, regardless of intention, it is possible to offend someone without meaning to? If we strip the picture of all intent and context, is it racist? No. Can it be used in a racist way depending on intent and context? Yes. Was it? No. Shitty end of the stick.

If you accept that, would you not like to know if your behaviour is causing offense unintentionally? By all means, I've not tried to stop anyone speaking out, you know this too. I just disagree that there was anything dodgy with Larry's intent.

You can then make a judgement on whether you want to modify your behaviour or not based on either; you think that offense is justified and you don't want to be the reason for it, and/or you simply don't want to cause offense to that person in that way again. In this case, I don't think it is justified. But then again, it seems like I'm the one people are trying to silence, what with being in my white man bubble and all. I don't get to have an opinion.

In this instance I think Larry was completely innocent in his motivations. I also think it is entirely reasonable for Dyna to express his concerns. Me too. I just don't agree with them.

GooberTheHat wrote:

from my point of view he's being over sensitive

This is the crux of it for me. You're looking at it from your point of view. Not Dyna's.

Of course, that's why I italicised part of the the line you quoted.  When people say 'I can see it from your point of view' they're just saying they understand where the other person is coming from.  I can't really do more than that, and I'm not trying to correct him on his take nor am I saying his opinion is wrong.

Moot_Geeza wrote:

GooberTheHat wrote:

from my point of view he's being over sensitive

This is the crux of it for me. You're looking at it from your point of view. Not Dyna's.

Of course, that's why I italicised part of the the line you quoted.  When people say 'I can see it from your point of view' they're just saying they understand where the other person is coming from.  I can't really do more than that, and I'm not trying to correct him on his take nor am I saying his opinion is wrong.

You kind of are though.

You're criticising his opinion by saying that he is overreacting. That's explicitly saying that you are responding incorrectly to the situation. Essentially you're saying "you're wrong".

I’m perfectly fine with people saying ‘your post was offensive to me’ and don’t mind apologising or deleting. No trouble.

It’s not like I’d choose a 1970’s Bernard Manning style representation of race relations to be the hill that I die on.

It wasn’t worth the trouble of posting it tbh. It wasn’t particularly funny or worthwhile.

Now that's funny.

Paul the sparky wrote:

I've learned that intent is irrelevant if someone decides to take offense and I'm in trapped in some sort of white man bubble. The joke didn't seem all that funny to me by the way, I'm not saying it was a knee slapper but I got the point of it. The Italian FA are abysmal, they're the source of offense.

Just for you Sparky (and tbh, I've written far more than is necessary), in the past fortnight alone, I've seen a fairly offensive antisemitic comment, the image posted in this thread, and a wildly offensive collection of comments about Muslims in the space of a fortnight.

Of all of those posts, I'd argue that only the antisemitic post was confronted with anything like a serious response. Why? I don't know, but it least it was.

Of the three cases I allude to, the comments I read about the Muslim community in the wake of the terror attack at the start of this month, was amongst the most offensive pieces of racism/hatred I can remember reading for some time, outside of any channel that trades on such language.

So that image, to me, was a full stop of a kind. My reply to Larry was coloured (hurr hurr) as much by what I read in the cultural affairs thread that day, as by his work of 'satire'.

So to clarify, for me, condemning the Italian FA for their actions in one post, only to echo their thesis, in microcosm, two (three, four...) posts later, is frankly, hypocritical.

And as I've pointed out, it's not the first time I've seen such shit. So yes. I wanted to make an example of it.

And finally, it's probably worth clarifying... 

Larry's apologised, and I've already acknowledged it. Which is more than what I'd witnessed in the other two cases I've referenced.

Think about that.

If you're on about Gazelles comments, he was called out by multiple people.

I've got no clue what the other stuff you're talking about is, but it doesn't seem fair that Larry seems to be copping the flak for it.

Happy to disagree and draw a line under it. Doesn't seem like anyone is getting anywhere.