I play quite a lot of FtP games, have no issues with the concept, but I don't like bought loot boxes.  Devs don't have to go that way to support their games.  League of Legends, Warframe, Fortnite - all hugely profitable and primarily off the back of direct purchases.  Let me buy the thing I wanna buy, not buy a chance to get it. Granted, it's more work for the dev to deliver a steady supply of desirable items, but that's far healthier for the playerbase and the game's reputation than making a mere handful of desirable items amongst a sea of trash filler content and telling you gamble with your money if you want them.  Edit: Loot boxes earned within the game and unavailable to buy separately - no problem.

Regarding Battle Passes, I've only had experience with a few, and they've been a mixed bag. You buy into a timed progression ladder (10 weeks / 3 months / whatever), with tiers offering rewards - and usually a particularly desirable reward for hitting the max tier.  Aye, they encourage you to play more than you normally might, but they also offer a genuine sense of progression and reward. The better examples, like Fortnite and Apex Legends, give you challenges to complete to help you progress (often changing up your playstyle in interesting ways) and also reward you with enough premium currency to purchase the next Battle Pass outright. Spend your tenner or whatever on one BP and as long as you play enough to get approximately two thirds of the way through you can continue buying BP's at no extra charge for as long as you play the game.  That's about as fair as you could want, it's still business after all. 

They're not all designed like this though (PUBG's first BP was a shit show), and I absolutely get Tempy's issues.  But honestly, I'll take a well implemented Battle Pass backed up by direct purchase cosmetics in a live service game over loot boxes any day.

I don't want to appear like I am just repeating his stuff verbatim, btw. I just recall it raising some good points. I think it is a complex thing.

It’s not really his job to offer alternatives though is it, he’s analysing it the way it is.

Like I say, I haven’t watched it in a while so i’ll give it another whirl, but analysing something doesn’t mean you have to offer alternatives for your observations for those observations to be true.

Loot boxes can fuck off. Overwatch has a lot to answer for. Direct purchases I'm fine with.

My problem with ftp monitisation is most games seem to target whales, and so sell things for an obscene cost. For example, I play Sega Heroes, and they sell a single character for £35-40. One character. Combining this with the pressure the games put on you to spend I find it deeply unethical.

Fuck it all in the bin.

Bloody hell, Dante.  That all sounds a bit rough.  

The only mobile game I've ever spent any time on was Clash Royale.  Had plenty of fun with it for a couple of months and while I was aware of the aggressive monetization I didn't feel like I had to spend to do well, though that may have changed as time passed or with time committed.

stormyskiesahead wrote:

Edit: Loot boxes earned within the game and unavailable to buy separately - no problem.

Nah, they can fuck off, too. Playing Wreckfest recently, it just gives you stuff when you win races/events. No pissing about with animations, no nonsense where you get three items, two of which are stickers and one is an upgrade to a vehicle you don’t own. It just identifies something you don’t have yet, and gives it to you. That’s how it used to work, before all this fucking about.

Yup. I was just responding to that specific point about when lootboxes are okay. I don’t think they’re ever okay.

It’s pointless faff, an attempt to say, “Look at all the stuff you’re getting!” The whole process is just wasting time. I was thinking of the ones in Trials Rising when I wrote that earlier. It adds nothing of value, just pointless fucking admin, opening the fucking things and clearing out duplicates.

If someone wants a particular decal to personalise their bike, let them buy it. Don’t waste my time slowly and randomly making me collect a full catalogue of them.

Hope at last??

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53253195

Setting the gambling element aside,  in game purchases could easily become a sticking plaster over poor game design; certainly with respect to rewards and development of abilities etc.,  with the added bonus of earning more money for the producers. 

That isn't a good combination. The path only leads downward.

I think the fact that they're a physical thing using real money and not 'space-bucks' also factors into it, not sure how but it feels different. I think at the least much more prominent drop rates in games would help, it's EU law to display drop rates for your loot chests but they're often hidden away; maybe if '0.01% chance to get the thing you want' was more obvious it'd give people pause for thought.

nick_md wrote:

I think the fact that they're a physical thing using real money and not 'space-bucks' also factors into it, not sure how but it feels different. I think at the least much more prominent drop rates in games would help, it's EU law to display drop rates for your loot chests but they're often hidden away; maybe if '0.01% chance to get the thing you want' was more obvious it'd give people pause for thought.

Yeah the drop rate thing needs addressing if nothing else.
There was a thing with maybe CoD where the drop rate was for "Rares" but "Rares" included a bunch of shite and the thing players actually wanted.

I do actually enjoy a gacha, fwiw - I enjoy the chance element and it's great when you get a sick pull. I'm a responsible adult though who can enjoy these things in moderation, others are more vulnerable / susceptible. I also think all gachas should employ a safety net mechanism, whereby you're guaranteed x if you don't get something good in y pulls.

One thing that doesn't well with me at all is gacha that affects gameplay in already-paid-for titles (like the Star Wars fiasco). If you've already spent bucks on a title you shouldn't then have to spend further to be able to compete. Gacha for cosmetics/taunts etc I don't really have an issue with.