JRPC wrote:

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Nonetheless, apparently THN view any possibility that this may be correct as inherently racist and malevolent. 

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JRPC wrote:

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Well that's what we're debating I guess, and I'm firmly with Haier (as well as the "broad support amoung intellegence researchers" that he brings), Harris and Reich and not on the side of Vox media.

JRPC wrote:

I guess it's as simple as that.

JRPC wrote:

You know that one of the authors of the Vox piece has apologised for title of the article btw, Charles Murray is once again peddling junk science about race and IQ admitting that it was "name calling" and unhelpful? 

JRPC wrote:

Fair critique and even-handed?

Yossarian wrote:

I’m pretty gobsmacked that that is the Vox article which has been complained about so vociferously. Genuinely stunned that something so reasonable has caused so much angst.
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Every point they enumerated as having broad support among intelligence researchers is correct

acemuzzy wrote:

Every point they enumerated as having broad support among intelligence researchers is correct

Somebody has made this for claim, and JRPC is putting a lot of weight behind it. Is there any evidence for it though? "Broad support" is the kind of chat the Tories use when they're trying to talk up a minority position, it's decidedly unquantified and unverifiable.

JRPC wrote:

This is a simple misreading of what I'm saying there, but even given that you're a little fast and loose with the use of "bias" there fella.

Take (the book) Free Will for example, as it's easier to pin down.  I've claimed this is now "core software running on my brain" right? The thesis of that book is simple - free will doesn't exist. That's a simple truth claim. It's not an ideology or a political agenda. It is every bit as much of a simple truth claim as, say, that the earth goes around the sun. 

OK so the claim here is explicitly that I'm failing to frame this properly because Face understands the relevant science and philosophy better than I do. Of course, it's certainly possible that he does. I am not a scientist or a philosopher. 

First off, can I just quickly highlight the fact that Face has apparently only very recently caught up the idea that this myth about "IQ only measures IQ" is pop-nonsense and was something I was trying to explain about 50 pages ago. I don't notice quite the same reaction to him suggesting this now though. Strange...

Are you telling me that you read those quotes from the editor of the scientific journal Intelligence and the President of the International Society for Intelligence Research and think, "y'know Rich, I see you've got a lot of highly relevant qualifications and numerous publications in the specific field of interest over there, but the way I see it is the reason you're struggling to frame this properly is that you just don't same kind of grasp of the science and philosophy as this guy from a gaming forum and his BuzzFeed articles".

This doesn’t mean that genetic variation is unimportant; it is, but it does not follow racial lines. History has taught us the many ways that studies of human genetic variation can be misunderstood and misinterpreted: if sampling practices and historical contexts are not considered; if little attention is given to how genes, environments, and social conditions interact; and if we ignore the ways that sociocultural categories and practices shape the genetic patterns themselves.

As scholars who engage with social and scientific research, we urge scientists to speak out when science is used inappropriately to make claims about human differences. The public should not cede the power to define race to scientists who themselves are not trained to understand the social contexts that shape the formation of this fraught category. Instead, we encourage geneticists to collaborate with their colleagues in the social sciences, humanities, and public health to consider more carefully how best to use racial categories in scientific research. Together, we can conduct research that will influence human lives positively.

Jonathan Kahn, James E. Kelley Professor of Law, Mitchell Hamline School of Law

Alondra Nelson, Professor of Sociology and Gender Studies, Columbia University; President, Social Science Research Council

Joseph L. Graves Jr., Associate Dean for Research & Professor of Biological Sciences, Fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, Section G: Biological Sciences, Joint School of Nanoscience & Nanoengineering, North Carolina A&T State University, UNC Greensboro

Sarah Abel, Postdoc, Department of Anthropology, University of Iceland

Ruha Benjamin, Associate Professor, Department of African American Studies, Princeton University

Sarah Blacker, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Max Planck Institute for the History of Science, Berlin

Catherine Bliss, Associate Professor, Social and Behavioral Sciences, UC San Francisco

Lundy Braun, Professor of Medical Science and Africana Studies, Brown University

Khiara M. Bridges, Professor of Law, Professor of Anthropology, Boston University

Craig Calhoun, President of Berggruen Institute Centennial Professor, London School of Economics.

Claudia Chaufan, Associate Professor, York University Toronto

Nathaniel Comfort, Professor, Institute of the History of Medicine, The Johns Hopkins University

Richard Cone, Professor of Biophysics, Johns Hopkins University

Richard Cooper, Department of Public Health Sciences, Loyola University Medical School

Marcy Darnovsky, Executive Director, Center for Genetics and Society

Robert Desalle, Curator, Institute for Genomics, American Museum of Natural History

Troy Duster, Chancellor’s Professor Emeritus, University of California, Berkeley

Anne Fausto-Sterling, Professor of Biology Emerita, Brown University, Fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science

Agustin Fuentes, The Edmund P. Joyce C.S.C. Professor of Anthropology, University of Notre Dame

Joan H. Fujimura, Professor, Department of Sociology and Holtz Center for Research on Science, Technology, Medicine, and the Environment, University of Wisconsin-Madison

Stephanie Malia Fullerton, Associate Professor, Department of Bioethics & Humanities, University of Washington

Duana Fullwiley, Associate Professor of Medical Anthropology, Stanford University.

Omer Gokcumen, Assistant Professor, University at Buffalo

Alan Goodman, Professor of Biological Anthropology. Hampshire College

Monica H. Green, Professor of History, School of Historical, Philosophical, and Religious Studies, Arizona State University

Erika Hagelberg, Professor, Department of Biosciences, University of Oslo

Evelynn Hammonds, Barbara Gutmann Rosenkrantz Professor of the History of Science, Harvard University

Helena Hansen, Assistant Professor of Anthropology and Psychiatry, New York University

John Hartigan Jr., Professor of Anthropology, University of Texas, Austin.

Anthony Hatch, Associate Professor, Science in Society Program, Sociology, and African American Studies, Wesleyan University

Torsten Heinemann, Professor of Sociology and Chair of Technology and Diversity, RWTH Aachen University, Germany

Jay Kaufman, Canada Research Chair in Health Disparities and Professor of Epidemiology, McGill University.

Trica Keaton, Associate Professor, African and African American Studies, Dartmouth College

Terence Keel, Associate Professor, Department of Black Studies and Department of History, University of California, Santa Barbara

Nancy Krieger, Professor of Social Epidemiology, American Cancer Society Clinical Research Professor, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health

Sheldon Krimsky, Lenore Stern Professor of Humanities and Social Sciences, Tufts University

Jon Røyne Kyllingstad, Associate Professor of History, University of Oslo

Catherine Lee, Associate Professor of Sociology, Rutgers University

Ageliki Lefkaditou, Postdoctoral Researcher, Institute of Health and Society, University of Oslo

Sandra Soo-Jin Lee, Senior Research Scholar, Center for Biomedical Ethics, Stanford University

Jonathan Marks, Professor of Anthropology, UNC-Charlotte

Amade M’charek, Professor of the Anthropology of Science, University of Amsterdam, Netherlands

Michael Montoya, Associate Professor of Anthropology Emeritus, University of California, Irvine

Ann Morning, Associate Professor of Sociology, New York University

Osagie K. Obasogie, Haas Distinguished Chair and Professor of Bioethics, Joint Medical Program and School of Public Health, University of California, Berkeley

Pilar N. Ossorio, Ph.D., JD, Professor of Law and Bioethics, University of Wisconsin-Madison

Tony Platt, Distinguished Affiliated Scholar, Center for the Study of Law & Society, UC Berkeley;

Robert Pollack, professor of Biological Sciences, Columbia University

Aaron Panofsky, Associate Professor, Institute for Society and Genetics, Public Policy, and Sociology, University of California, Los Angeles

Kimani Paul-Emile, Associate Professor, Fordham University School of Law

Ramya M. Rajagopalan, Research Scientist, Institute for Practical Ethics, University of California, San Diego

Rayna Rapp, Professor of Anthropology, New York University

Jenny Reardon, Professor of Sociology and Director, Science and Justice Research Center, University of California, Santa Cruz

Amos Morris-Reich, Professor of History, University of Haifa

Susan M. Reverby, McLean Professor Emerita in the History of Ideas and Professor Emerita of Women’s and Gender Studies, Wellesley College

Jennifer A. Richeson, Philip R. Allen Professor of Psychology, Yale University

Sarah S. Richardson, Professor of the History of Science and of Studies of Women, Gender, and Sexuality Director of Graduate Studies, WGS, Harvard University

Dorothy Roberts, George A. Weiss University Professor of Law, Sociology, and Africana Studies and Director, Penn Program on Race, Science, and Society, University of Pennsylvania

Wendy D. Roth, Associate Professor of Sociology, University of British Columbia

Charmaine DM Royal, Associate Professor, African & African American Studies, Biology, and Community & Family Medicine, Duke University

Danilyn Rutherford, President of the Wenner-Gren Foundation for Anthropological Research

Janet K. Shim, Professor of Sociology, University of California, San Francisco

Karen-Sue Taussig, Chair and Associate Professor of Anthropology, University of Minnesota

Charis Thompson, Chancellor’s Professor, UC Berkeley, and RQIF Professor, London School of Economics

France Winddance Twine, Professor of Sociology, University of California at Santa Barbara

Keith Wailoo, Henry Putnam University Professor of History and Public Affairs, Princeton University

Patricia J. Williams, James L. Dohr Professor of Law, Columbia University

Michael Yudell, Chair & Associate Professor, Dornsife School of Public Health, Drexel University

acemuzzy wrote:

So is the person jrpc quoted as saying there was broad consensus about some shizzle wrong then?

Has jrpc got anything to back it up, beyond the credentials of the bloke who said it?