The No Subject Thread
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mk64 wrote:Kara_Jane_Adams wrote:“I have a black friend” is something of a trope that is best avoided.
What a stupid thing to say.
I have black friends so if anyone of my friends would be more likely to be offended, if I did what that guy did, it would someone who is black wouldn’t it?
But I’m pointing out they wouldn’t call me a racist if I did it.
It’s a simple point someone as intelligent as you should be able to grasp easily.
Why would it be up to them to point it out?
You should know this shit.
Ignorance isn’t an excuse. -
Lot of white people here getting offended by racism... -
Likewise, MK, you should know that the whole, “Some of my best friends are [insert protected characteristic here],” is never the defence that people think it is. Frankly, I’d be massively surprised if your black friends would be quite so relaxed as you think if you rocked up in black face. Even so, your inability to grasp that what’s okay in one context is absolutely not okay in others would be astonishing if it wasn’t you.
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Kow wrote:Lot of white people here getting offended by racism...
That’s a bullshit argument, too. -
There was an interesting debate on radio 4 that authors could only give voice to individuals of their creed. To step outside of that was inherently racist.
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Just this year I’ve had somebody justifying my death on Twitter because I’m a Jew and therefore as Hiemer stated we have no souls and are no different to beasts of the field.
And that’s with me looking like a typical whitey.
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Andy wrote:
That’s a bullshit argument, too.Lot of white people here getting offended by racism...
I didn't mean it ironically. I meant that you don't have to be black (or any "ethnicity") to be offended by racism, as is evident from the reactions here. -
Kara_Jane_Adams wrote:mk64 wrote:Kara_Jane_Adams wrote:“I have black a black friend” is something of a trope that is best avoided.
What a stupid thing to say.
I have black friends so if anyone of my friends would be more likely to be offended, if I did what that guy did, it would someone who is black wouldn’t it?
But I’m pointing out they wouldn’t call me a racist if I did it.
It’s a simple point someone as intelligent as you should be able to grasp easily.
Why would it be up to them to point it out?
You should know this shit.
Ignorance isn’t an excuse.
Read what I wrote. I didn’t say it would or should be up to anyone to “point” anything out. I’m saying that those who it could offend most wouldn’t feel offended by me doing it because I’m not racist. My white friends wouldn’t either because they also know I’m not.
He could've just said they came from another planet but seems keen to convince people with his bullshit pseudoscience that he knows stuff. I wouldn't trust him with my lunch. - SG -
I did read what you wrote.
It smacked of a rationalisation of shitty behaviour.
“I’m not racist, so I can do racist things with impunity” is quite possibly the worst argument I’ve ever heard. -
What Mk says is true though - in an enclosed group of friends who know you, you can behave and say what you want with the understanding that they know you and when you're joking etc etc. The problem with the previous situation is that someone presumed this attitude could be extended to a party where there were people who didn't know him. They're different situations and cross purposes really.
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Out of interest, do you know any racists?
How many racists could you honestly see trying to look like the very people they are bigoted towards? It’s irrational no?He could've just said they came from another planet but seems keen to convince people with his bullshit pseudoscience that he knows stuff. I wouldn't trust him with my lunch. - SG -
I’d argue that what MK says can be true, but isn’t necessarily always true. There’s not a shortage of people who think they can get away with certain behaviour with certain friends, whose friends are rolling their eyes.
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mk64 wrote:Out of interest, do you know any racists?
How many racists could you honestly see trying to look like the very people they are bigoted towards? It’s irrational no?
Do you think that minstrel shows were performed out of affection? -
mk64 wrote:Out of interest, do you know any racists? How many racists could you honestly see trying to look like the very people they are bigoted towards? It’s irrational no?
Yeah, because dressing up is always about emulation and never about ridicule. Fuck me. -
Kow wrote:What Mk says is true though - in an enclosed group of friends who know you, you can behave and say what you want with the understanding that they know you and when you're joking etc etc. The problem with the previous situation is that someone presumed this attitude could be extended to a party where there were people who didn't know him. They're different situations and cross purposes really.
If I turned up to a family gathering in blackface my uncle would beat the shit of out of me.
And it wouldn’t come as a surprise.
The fact that he knows I’m not racist would probably piss him off more, as I clearly should know better. -
Andy wrote:I’d argue that what MK says can be true, but isn’t necessarily always true. There’s not a shortage of people who think they can get away with certain behaviour with certain friends, whose friends are rolling their eyes.
Sure, but there are close friends who do know you and with whom you can probably get away with all kinds of barbarities. -
MK’s got his Halloween costume sorted then.
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Kara_Jane_Adams wrote:
If I turned up to a family gathering in blackface my uncle would beat the shit of out of me. And it wouldn’t come as a surprise. The fact that he knows I’m not racist would probably piss him off more, as I clearly should know better.What Mk says is true though - in an enclosed group of friends who know you, you can behave and say what you want with the understanding that they know you and when you're joking etc etc. The problem with the previous situation is that someone presumed this attitude could be extended to a party where there were people who didn't know him. They're different situations and cross purposes really.
Your uncle is probably not in your circle of very close friends. We all have a few friends with whom we are very close and who understand when we're being ironic, pushing boundaries, letting off steam, taking the piss, whatever. And they can do the same. And inside that circle there is no kind of offensive. -
Kow wrote:
Sure, but there are close friends who do know you and with whom you can probably get away with all kinds of barbarities.Andy wrote:I’d argue that what MK says can be true, but isn’t necessarily always true. There’s not a shortage of people who think they can get away with certain behaviour with certain friends, whose friends are rolling their eyes.
That's literally what friends are for, the barbarities. -
Andy wrote:I’d argue that what MK says can be true, but isn’t necessarily always true. There’s not a shortage of people who think they can get away with certain behaviour with certain friends, whose friends are rolling their eyes.
Maybe, but this chap rocked up to a party with strangers, so MK blacking up in private and his close black friends being ok with it is totally irrelevant anyway. -
Kow wrote:Your uncle is probably not in your circle of very close friends. We all have a few friends with whom we are very close and who understand when we're being ironic, pushing boundaries, letting off steam, taking the piss, whatever. And they can do the same. And inside that circle there is no kind of offensive.
I think we move in different circles. -
Kow wrote:Sure, but there are close friends who do know you and with whom you can probably get away with all kinds of barbarities.
Yup. -
The alarm bells were sounding when MK started his take with "I'm not a racist, but..."
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Yup.Paul the sparky wrote:Maybe, but this chap rocked up to a party with strangers, so MK blacking up in private and his close black friends being ok with it is totally irrelevant anyway. -
The video dante posted raised an interesting question as to when this type of thing becomes harmless. Cultural sensitivity must diminish over time or do you think it is perpetually relevant?
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MK, anyone who knows you will know you aren't racist. Fucking hell good luck surviving where you grew up if you were.
I think that distinction between what your friends approve of and the wider world is important though. -
Lord_Griff wrote:The video dante posted raised an interesting question as to when this type of thing becomes harmless. Cultural sensitivity must diminish over time or do you think it is perpetually relevant?
I'd suppose as long as some form of cultural domination remains then sensitivity will remain. I can't imagine doing an impression of a white middle class American is offensive to many people, not even white middle class Americans. -
Lord_Griff wrote:The video dante posted raised an interesting question as to when this type of thing becomes harmless. Cultural sensitivity must diminish over time or do you think it is perpetually relevant?
It can certainly diminish over time, but I doubt it will ever reduce to nothing, at least not until we’re a few generations into an egalitarian utopia. -
Kow wrote:Lord_Griff wrote:The video dante posted raised an interesting question as to when this type of thing becomes harmless. Cultural sensitivity must diminish over time or do you think it is perpetually relevant?
I'd suppose as long as some form of cultural domination remains then sensitivity will remain. I can't imagine doing an impression of a white middle class American is offensive to many people, not even white middle class Americans.
Trump supporters may disagree. -
Lord_Griff wrote:The video dante posted raised an interesting question as to when this type of thing becomes harmless. Cultural sensitivity must diminish over time or do you think it is perpetually relevant?
It becomes harmless the instant racism and discrimination don't exist. But I'd imagine you'd not have as many people wanting to do this type of thing then, it'll not be quite as juicy.
This bloke that went to the party as SLJ, I bet he was looking to be challenged on it so he could get some point or other across. He must have some notion that it was a provocative thing to do. Or maybe he's just an oblivious doylem.
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