Yossarian wrote:

Something just struck me here:

Childintime wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

I'd suggest that by taking that position you are writing off the entirety of a very large, generally well-intentioned, and largely positive movement which has helped improve the day to day lives of many marginalised people because of the actions of a few of its fringe elements, myself.

Yup, pretty much. Fuck 'em.

Isn't this exactly the same as the all leave voters are racist meme that annoyed you so much?

Nope. Because I both explicitly acknowledge it's not all of them and admit I don't care.

That's pretty much the exact opposite of "all leave voters are racist". That explicit denies that there could be a reason why any leave voter could vote for non-racist reasons and continues the pretense of wanting to engage in political "debate".

Childintime wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

Something just struck me here:

Childintime wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

I'd suggest that by taking that position you are writing off the entirety of a very large, generally well-intentioned, and largely positive movement which has helped improve the day to day lives of many marginalised people because of the actions of a few of its fringe elements, myself.

Yup, pretty much. Fuck 'em.

Isn't this exactly the same as the all leave voters are racist meme that annoyed you so much?

Nope. Because I both explicitly acknowledge it's not all of them and admit I don't care. That's pretty much the exact opposite of "all leave voters are racist". That explicit denies that there could be a reason why any leave voter could vote for non-racist reasons and continues the pretense of wanting to engage in political "debate".

Yeah, but no one ever said that, so it seems pretty much exactly the same tired/exasperated nihilism to me.

But, well, if you're looking for vids of sensible and interesting debate on youtube - aye, you'd soon figure "fuck all of these people, and fuck all of this"

Naw, I've certainly said things along those lines before. I was bothered by the inclination towards dismissing desenting votes are being the result of racism, misogyny etc. and still am - whether it's Brexit or Trump. That's not always aimed at people here - it's just a general reaction to the tone of discussion on the Internet.

That said, this stuff may be sticking out to me because of confirmation bias, so it's by no means a predominant trait of people arguing against Trump or Brexit voters online.

Yeah, I should have been clearer - I'm talking about the identity politics and anti-free speech fascism that's seemed more prominent since about 2013/4 or so...

kneecap wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

Childintime wrote:

Incidentally, I don't know how much they've improved the lives of marginalised people

Absolutely massively. Women's suffrage is considered part of the progressive movement. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Era It has only continued and grown since then.

Yoss you can't seriously be drawing direct lines between the suffragettes and today's suffering bloggers?

Na - it's my fault for not really being clear on who I was referring to as "progressives".

I think the Anti-Freespeech stuff is largely overrated myself. 

We had a rector election here at Glasgow, two of the nominations were Milo Yiannapolous (known Grimace at a funeral looking ass) and Jordan Peterson (vaguely famous "true liberal" psychology professor from Canada). A lot of their campaigns were based around fighting against the fascism of feminists and such on campus, and they both tanked in the polls.

Peterson's campaign specifically outlined a whole angle about how the University screwed them out of a room to organise a Q&A with Peterson in. The truth is, no one got a room. The university remains non-partisan. The QMU refused them, but they also refused Milo's team and a few others, as they are totally allowed to as a privately funded organisation. Also he fucked himself prior to his campaign by 1) having a shite gimmick "self authorship program" that had no tested worth, and 2) got on the wrong side of the LGBTQ+ community by saying trans people had to earn his respect to use the right pronouns, rather than just using them and not being a massive dickhead.

One thing that gets me riled up is reading uninformed articles about Universities banning free speech, how they're turning us all into snow flakes and so on, and then frequent;y seeing some of the older types I follow on twitter lament about how awful and mollycoddled university must be. It frequently fails to take into account that a lot of this is down to National Student Council, and not the actual university - yes there are shithead members at these things (see the Edinburgh "hand gestures" debacle for stuff about that) but that's just dickheads gaming a system with their dickhead pals. University departments, especially the arts, are frequently heavily Left leaning as that's the critical space they occupy, but Glasgow have Right Wing lecturers in other departments. I am perhaps conflating your issue with my issues here, but in my perception it's not as big of an issue as the Right make out, and the people who do the most policing are just flat out dicks usually.

Tempy wrote:

I think the Anti-Freespeech stuff is largely overrated myself. 

Indeed. In fact, I'd say that the overblown reaction to a handful of generally pretty minor incidents has been more ridiculous than the incidents themselves.

Yeah, to Tempy's point, a lot of this Universities anti-free speech stuff has been nonsense, and sometimes outright lies.

Hi lads I haven't been in here in a while but I like to keep on top of things in case any faux pas happen, so is misogyny a good thing now or still a bad thing?

Thank you for your quick response, I shall continue looking at a woman's tits whilst she talks to me.

A point where Matters are documented and bad enough to generate a lot of cathartic and involving self-exercise but not bad enough to actually create like the Black Panthers II.

Well played, capitalism.

Brooks wrote:

A point where Matters are documented and bad enough to generate a lot of cathartic and involving self-exercise but not bad enough to actually create like the Black Panthers II.

Well played, capitalism.

So on point.

Was it this thread I posted film crit hulk rant?

To me, that's the counter to left self loathing and nihilism.

Jon on point about collectivism vs individual.

FWIW, no matter how many links to debacles like the one I just posted I read or link to, I'm still left, could still live with being called progressive, and refuse to fall into the trap of thinking everyone is just as bad as everyone else.

Identity politics has some ok ideas amongst it, but damn if the collective doesn't need to be accounted for more.

Julia Hahn is the Patty Hearst of the far right, a daughter of privilege who veered wildly off the expected course. 

She seems quite pretty fashie too I guess.

Well, if he can get it.