Misogyny and other gender issues. - The Bear and Badger

Facewon

In really really unsurprising news...

https://www.pedestrian.tv/news/terry-richardson-conde-nast-kill/

Escape

He's a terrible photographer, that's the thing.

djchump

Facewon wrote:

Wow. Read all of that. Is upload studio on the Bone part of this?

I don’t think so - the website and company is all about VR.

In other news/interviews: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/interrogation/2017/10/anthony_bourdain_on_weinstein_john_besh_and_meathead_restaurant_culture.html?wpisrc=burger_bar

Diluted Dante

*Trigger warning, links to Twitter*

This might not mean anything to anyone on here, but Adam Blampied, formally of WhatCulture has just been outed as a big sleezeball.

He's issued an apology, but it rings pretty hollow.

Along with the Twiggy Ramirez rape allegation, it's been a shit day for people I like being sex pests.

Escape

Diluted Dante wrote:

sex pests.

Undersells it.

Sex flies. Sex bugs. Sex nippers. Use the cockswatter!

mistercrayon

“Ally”

Facewon

mistercrayon wrote:

“Ally”

Lol.

@dante. Rings hollow because it's very polished? It's almost as good as can be expected as an apology of this sort goes. I don't really know the guy's work, but it reads like a lawyer has been over it. Not trying to feel sorry for dude, but it is interesting, rings hollow if it's too good, is generally insensitive if it's poor. Impossible position for the apologiser. (which is fine, btw. Made bed, lie in it.)

The woman's account is just heartbreaking.

Diluted Dante

More context - he posted that just before he could be outed, not after he was, knowing that it was about to happen, and I've read stuff from some of the others involved too.

It's probably not been lawyered - he's a writer and presenter. You're right in that it is about as good as could be expected, in that he doesn't try and shift blame elsewhere, but I just don't believe he's sorry for what he did, just that he got caught. But yeah impossible position I guess.

Facewon

http://bust.com/movies/193705-kate-winslet-woody-allen.html

https://www.salon.com/2017/10/20/is-metoo-coming-for-louis-c-k/

Given the history of protection, SM campaigns and boycotting etc are kinda fair enough, but man, the ck stuff is treading a very fine line.

There's too many times when smoke has meant fire for the bubbling rumours to be ignored. And victim blaming and shaming is the MO of many a guilty rapist, famous or otherwise, but until more info comes out, the ck stuff skates dangerously close to Richard Gear gerbil rumours.

Fuck it. I dunno.

equinox_code

Have I missed some context here?

Dantes link reads like some incredibly minor celebrity asked a girl to send him nudes, which she did, but now she regrets that decision because he had no sincere interest in her.

I'm failing to see any abuse of power in this instance, although I haven't read around the incident so perhaps I missed the bit where she was depending on him for a job or something

acemuzzy

It reads like he emotionally manipulated multiple women, resulting in images being sent which they didn't really want to send. It doesn't feel like they're trying to inflate the accusations beyond that, but it sure like he's an untrustworthy sleazeball.

Facewon

http://pca.st/OkjI

The lucky country. An amazing podcast. Australian context here, and this could go in society's ills thread too, but man. This ep will make you mad.

Support services for rape victims being privatised. Fucking hell.

[Deleted User]

Facewon wrote:

Support services for rape victims being privatised. Fucking hell.

What the fucking, fucking fuck?

Facewon

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/counselling-service-walks-away-from-national-assault-hotline-1800-respect-over-privacy-concerns-20170901-gy8vx6.html

Facewon

So bare with me here...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41805953 (tariq ramadan charged with rape).

Tariq Ali on FB about it:

Just heard that 'moderate' Muslim theologian and activist, Tariq Ramadan is accused of horrific acts of sexual violence against a number of women all of them Muslims. I always found him sly, politically evasive, willing to serve the needs of a Blairite foreign office who provided him with a job at Oxford. This political 'moderation' was not mirrored by a similar restraint in his hotel bedrooms that became rape-sites. I strongly hope that the groups who worked with him will speak up and avoid any cover-ups.What a scumbag...

A week before....

These feminists should be a model for sisters and brothers elsewhere...a voice of sanity amidst total hysteria.

As feminists, we have been part of a long struggle to make visible sexual harassment at the workplace, and have worked with the movement to put in place systems of transparent and just procedures of accountability. We are dismayed by the initiative on Facebook, in which men are being listed and named as sexual harassers with no context or explanation. One or two names of men who have been already found guilty of sexual harassment by due process, are placed on par with unsubstantiated accusations. It worries us that anybody can be named anonymously, with lack of answerability. Where there are genuine complaints, there are institutions and procedures, which we should utilize. We too know the process is harsh and often tilted against the complainant. We remain committed to strengthening these processes. At the same time, abiding by the principles of natural justice, we remain committed to due process, which is fair and just.
This manner of naming can delegitimize the long struggle against sexual harassment, and make our task as feminists more difficult.
We appeal to those who are behind this initiative to withdraw it, and if they wish to pursue complaints, to follow due process, and to be assured that they will be supported by the larger feminist community in their fight for justice.

https://kafila.online/2017/10/24/statement-by-feminists-on-facebook-campaign-to-name-and-shame/

See also spacey having house of cards cancelled, and previous pages re folks losing their jobs.

The tension between the issues with the process of justice for assault and rape victims vs innocent until proven guilty is so tricky.

monkey

Yeah this Spacey stuff isn't good if you ask me. You've got one guy's interview about events from 30 years ago. Spacey apparently can't remember it. And that's it. He's effectively branded for life and it'll affect his career, maybe finish it. Maybe he didn't know his age, maybe he did. Maybe he had reason to believe his advances would be reciprocated, maybe he didn't (I know that's sailing a bit close to the 'leading on' defence of the sexual predator but bear with me). Maybe he was black out drunk, maybe he was sober as a judge. Even if (and I don't think this is the case, for a number of reasons) nothing happened and Rapp is lying, Spacey denying it in the current climate would have been a terrible move as people will assume he's guilty and trying to smear the victim. The point is you get no context, no process. Just an accusation and no proper way of answering for it, one way or the other. Maybe Spacey is worse than this story makes out (and there's apparently plenty of rumours to suggest that).

In a court of law, these questions would be asked, you'd get answers, Spacey would have to provide a proper defence where 'I'M GAY' isn't going to cut it as a distraction. But then there's no evidence for these things, it's one person's word versus another's, leading to abysmal conviction rates. So there's no justice through that method.

It's good that people are speaking out as it creates a climate that's intolerant to this stuff. Since the Weinstein stuff broke, probably loads of crimes haven't been committed that otherwise would have been. Execs suddenly realising they aren't immune and need to watch their step. It's not an effective replacement for a functioning justice system though. And I'm not sure how you go about getting one of those.

monkey

Obviously, you can do things to make sure the police take it seriously, make sure the victim is supported and so on. But you need evidence to convict someone.

Edit-
Just in case that’s still a bit blurry and comes off a bit ‘who knows what really happened’, that’s not my view. It takes balls for Rapp to say this, he’s got no reason to lie, it’s a very specific allegation and I believe him. I’ve never really thought that much of Spacey and don’t care if his name is dragged through the mud. I just think this public naming and shaming is a mess, some piss poor resolution mechanism for the victims (who won’t all have Rapp’s opportunity of a big interview with a major website) and pretty indiscriminate punishment for the perps.

Escape

I was just talking to monkey, and then I looked across and he had his purple tentacle out.

djchump

"Open secrets", innit.

Paging Travolta.

Skerret

Cos he's Weinstein and Spacey and Trump and

Travoltaaaaa

Facewon

Mate, it's not funny.

My ass is on fire.

Skerret

Get me outta this alt-right nightmare

Facewon

Andy dick, who I only know as a that guy, is apparently an asshole. His response to allegations makes spaceys look perfectly fine.

Was just thinking that entertainment will get a clean out now, but that outside of normal jobs, where a lot of stuff will continue to go unreported depending on Corp culture, that sport will be the last domino to fall. If one NBA guy goes properly then the fallout could be huge.

CrimeInSports pod already covers a lot of it. Bernard king, for instance, knicks legend, subject of a recent 30 for 30, used in a spike Lee ad, also recently.

Involved in a horrific excessively violent drug fuelled gang rape, amongst other sexual assaults.

NBA is very good at sweeping under rugs.

Escape

A lot of these women are doing the right thing now that their careers are founded, and although that indicates a hardened complicity to get through their grope years, they should all speak out about the rottenness of Hollywood Man. The problem is that lots of people won't listen to them.

To be honest, I'd be up for a Boomeranging for the right kind of recompense. But then of course, I'm a man.

Facewon

Asking a 20 something girl trying to get a foot in the door to fuck up her career and get abused and defamed after a rape, and still then probably not get a good result through the legal system is a big ask. Hence the mob mentality right now.

Power dynamics innit. See also NCAA pay disputes.

Escape

Facewon wrote:

then probably not get a good result through the legal system

Exactly. Smedia's failing in not overcoming the bought PR of old, because so many are still blaming the wrong people without its prompts. Maybe Hollywood's like the Tories at the minute, and they are slowly crumbling under mounting pressure...

But then again, they have the massive advantage of providing popular entertainment. Their sleaze has oozed over to TV, as well. Acting's too attractive for its own good as long as it pays silly money.

djchump

Musicians will be getting free passes long after any clampdown on sportsfolk.

Escape

Haptic mic stands?

Facewon

djchump wrote:

Musicians will be getting free passes long after any clampdown on sportsfolk.

Old big names yes. Starting to see some Indies having issues.

GooberTheHat

If it means that young women feel empowered to talk about this stuff now, and are confident that there grievances will be listened to, then I'm all for it. It will hopefully make men realise that they probably won't get away with it, rather the previous thinking that they almost certainly will, and so curtail the negative behaviour of those that previously wouldn't have thought twice.

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