Ah I was wondering where I recognized the handle from. Wtf is his beef? What stake does he have in this debate? Fucker's a wasteman.

I'm perfectly fine having debates and studies on children's exposure to gender nonconformity, ftr, but Linehan seems completely blinkered to anything other than his own pov. I feel I can't even call him a terf anymore because apparently that's upsetting and offensive.

Tempy wrote:

The poster is Graham Linehan btw

nick_md wrote:

I'm perfectly fine having debates and studies on children's exposure to gender nonconformity, ftr, but Linehan seems completely blinkered to anything other than his own pov. I feel I can't even call him a terf anymore because apparently that's upsetting and offensive.

He always seemed a nice guy. But he has taken on a zealot like role over this.

The guy's a fucking dickhead and I have trouble reconciling this with my enjoyment of Ted. I can happily dump his other work. I guess Ted himself was created by DM (I think?) and I feel the cast really made that show. Yeah I'm making excuses for breaking my principles, but I think we all do to some degree.

Is he? Or is he just very questioning of the scale and propagation of it in a quite twatty manner?

Though I do have qualms re: 'The Trans Movement' as it currently exists. But I guess anything with a militant element ends up with some twats, I guess.

tigerswiftly wrote:

Is he?

Yes.

tigerswiftly wrote:

Though I do have qualms re: 'The Trans Movement' as it currently exists. But I guess anything with a militant element ends up with some twats, I guess.

What are the qualms? Asking because interested, not provoking.

So firstly. I have a lot of empathy for transgender people. I think to come out as transgender is incredibley brave, even if it may feel natural, it is something that won't make life easy unfortunately.

There are two aspects of the debate I would like to know more opinions or info on. With both I feel too poorly informed to do much other than abstain from opinion.

Firstly is the public toilet debate. I fully understand why a male to female transgender person would want use the female toilets. It is where they feel they belong and it doesn't draw unwanted attention.
On the other side of the debate I feel it is easy to understand why females may feel uncomfortable sharing toilets with non-biological females.
I feel like this often gets confused and transgender rights people feeling they are being accused of being rapists. Sadly the cause of the problem is actually sis males (is sis right?).

I'm not sure what the solution is here short of anything unnacceptably heavy handed like "I'm a trans" I.D cards.

Second thing relates to the above conversation.
In anything but medical or biological terms I'm happy for kids to be who they want to be. If a boy wants to wear Barbie PJs, have at it. If that girl what's to be called John and refered to as a boy, all fine. I think parents, family and schools can well enough determine the difference between play, playing up and genuine wishes. That isn't for society as a whole to decide.

I feel things become different if we start to look at things like hormone therapy. My rudimentary understanding of the biology involved is hormones being out of balance in some way causing a conflict between the physicality and the mentality.
The biggest shift in hormones we go through is during puberty. Where I lack knowledge is if this shift is enough to change people to actually realign with their birth gender or not.
The problem being waiting can be both traumatic and gender alignment is more more successful physically if hormones are taken pre-puberty.


Sorry, bit of a wall of text but would be good to fill some knowledge gaps if possible. Or even see some informed opinions from people here.

Cheers Dante, already learning.
So I gather if blockers are stopped with no replacement therapy that is just like being a late bloomer?

I don't think I can begin to answer fully. I don't think for a lot of things in these debates, even Trans people could comprehensively answer. Lots of Contrapoints videos cover things like passing and the difficulty of liking extreme left/feminist attitudes. It's cis, not sis, by the way. That's an easy one to pick up on at least.

Cheers Tempy.
I knew sis was wrong but also right.

I realise what I covered wouldn't be easy to answer.

@tiger
No, well not that I have seen, just my lack of knowledge there. I think I had confused blockers for hormones in terms of pre-pubescent kids getting medical treatment. (Treatment? Minefield)

It's an idea to at least move that way.
Fabric has a urinals section and a cubicles section rather than Ladies and Gents.
Possibly works better in busier and more staffed places like clubs and restaurants. Maybe not council toilets.

https://link.medium.com/Zf0Qd3A4CS

From the twitter link I posted.

Seems the more reasonable way to disagree on some trans issues. I'm still trawling through the other stuff she posted.

Oh. Missed a bunch of posts. Still.