Misogyny and other gender issues. - The Bear and Badger

Vela

Australia sometimes likes to deport its own citizens; even the occasional indigenous person.

In this instance the way it reads in the aus media is that they were just slow to accept her application after the UN deemed she had a legitimate claim.

Or they might have just cancelled the tourist visa since technically she wasnt planning on a tourist trip by her own declaration. Which is essentially correct legally, but incredibly heartless.

There's also the Australian resident refugee footballer currently detained in Thailand because Australia tipped them off that he was travelling and wanted by Bahrain for a crime he allegedly committed whilst playing in a live televised football match. But he didnt go on instagram, Australia is in the Asian Football region and the head of the AFC is related to the royal family (or part of it) in Bahrain.

Vela

Which is not misogyny but because he isnt photogenic the story hasnt caught on locally. Kind of like how semi-hot drug smugglers get more attention than the fat lesbians or asians who Australia generally dont like to think of as real aussies so fuck em ( @Facewon or @Skerret might be able to support me on this claim for people who dont know what Im referring to - Schappelle Corby vs Bali Nine).

Facewon

Well yeah, we're a bunch of cunts.

Skerret

Facewon wrote:

https://youtu.be/7bVqfQvXP2o

With thanks to gonz.

Thundercunt is a foot or something.

Skerret

Facewon wrote:

Well yeah, we're a bunch of cunts.

Tempy

I think i've linked Shaun here like 10 times. I was considering linking his recent one about Transphobia in Britain after the recent chat.

nick_md

Yeah that's a good one. I'm going to throw some money at the guy I think, his vids and delivery are right up my street. His Charlottesville one was great.

Armitage_Shankburn

Tempy wrote:

I think i've linked Shaun here like 10 times. I was considering linking his recent one about Transphobia in Britain after the recent chat.

This is the bit I found overly SJW.

I fundamentally disagree with that dude on a number of levels. This one is. Women are articulating their concerns
They are that they fundamentally feel safe in women only spaces and they would feel less safe if soneone, wholly subjectively and authoritatively, were able to access them via self-ID.

It doesn't help to totally ignore that and call them transphobes like Shaun does. He doesn't have to deal with this issue, and he should check his privilege and listen to women.

My gf, who you know is quite a bit younger sand so recently remained a "student", was given a leaflet to go protest outside the old bailey. Wear a balaclava, they were told, because the terfs will otherwise doxx you. What they were protesting was the trial of a 35 year old trans woman for assaulting a feminist woman seeking to access a meeting. That 35 yo woman is 6ft 5 and punched a 60 year old veteran feminist in the fucking face.

The people organising to defend a criminal aggressor "because V is a turf" are brainwashed fuckwits, and actually so is Shaun on this issue, I think.

I could mention rapists of women who some say should be allowed into women's prisons, but this isn't the thread for it.

I acknowledge there is good old fashioned social conservatism from women at work eg Lily Madigan hâte. Well, the latter seems to love baiting women instead of properly performing her role as women's officer but the point for me is this: trans women should be able to self ID to run in either women only shortlists or women's officer. Because this only allows them to be elected if they actually get the votes, and if the labour clp in Kent or wherever Madigan IS is stupid enough to vote a 17 yo kid with mummy issues as women's officer, that's on them.

TLDR

The world is becoming too ideological, immoderate, and downright fucking retarded, and we are now telling lifelong feminist campaigners shut your fucking trap and it's the right progressive thing to do. Ayayayayaye

Armitage_Shankburn

I told yous I was a terf. Come at me soyboys

Armitage_Shankburn

nick_md wrote:

Yeah that's a good one. I'm going to throw some money at the guy I think, his vids and delivery are right up my street. His Charlottesville one was great.

Three arrows is better

Tempy

I wasn't going to link it as a smug rebuttal of the arguments that had been brought up, but rather as part of the ongoing debate about it. It definitely cuts both ways. There seems to be absolutely no attempt to create a dialogue though, so it's has ended up with people just being awful to each other across the board. I don't really know exactly where I stand on it in all truth. People like Graham Linehan don't really help matters, and I suppose neither do people like Shaun. Both entrenched at polar opposite ends of the debate. I guess i'd err to relax Self ID rules and focus the argument away from the bathroom thing, but other than that I'm lost really.

nick_md

Is the issue here around self-identification, or about toilet access for any trans people?

As in, if self-identification is not a thing, and you need to go through a process to be determined trans, is the issue of toilet access resolved?

On a related note, I know a trans woman who was against the self-identification bill (albeit not vehemently). She states that, for such a big and wide-impacting decision, it helps to have some hoops to jump through, to ensure you are on board with what you are doing. Or at least I think that's her take.

I didn't submit to the questionnaire thing at the time as I really don't know where I stand on the issue. One thing I do know is that Linehan has no stake in the discussion, afaict, and should butt out of it; the man's a dildo and it's really taken the shine off near everything he's ever done for me.

Tempy

I've heard that position too, the current Gender Recognition Act has some weird stuff in it though, like spousal consent.

Yossarian

Linehan’s own explanation is that he’s attempting to be an ally to cis women in his life who are uncomfortable with this.

Being an ally is generally a positive thing and one that shouldn’t be dismissed with “you’ve no stake in this, butt out”, IMO, as much as this is about the most contentious issue in current identity politics that it’s possible to try and be an ally in.

nick_md

I don't know, I still feel like he's being a massive dildo about it - rallying mumsnetters (an awful bunch of people, let's face it), to fight what he sees as his cause.

I certainly feel there's some bigotry in there too, whether he realises or not.

I think he should stay out of it, tbh. I'm not running around trying to incite LGBT people to rally to side xyz, because I don't feel it really involves me, I don't have a stake in this, despite having LGBT friends who are uncomfortable with the situation.

I think he probably enjoys hold-ups in private.

Yossarian

I’m not trying to defend Linehan particularly here, but the idea of being an ally is pretty important, IMO, and something which all of us who come from a relatively privileged position should be doing to help those who aren’t. Not being an arsehole personally isn’t going to effect change, standing up for others publicly can make a difference.

Not that I’m suggesting that you don’t. I suspect you probably are an ally in your private life.

Brooks

Gender in general is kind of a shitshow, even the transwomen I know pretty well are in many minds about their trajectory, torn between the Passing narrative and something entirely more progressive, unprecedented and scary. They're also the gentlest people I've ever met, despite coping with the kind of cocktail of borderline poverty, total familial dysfunction and mental illness that would have finished me very quickly in their place I think.

g.man

afgavinstan wrote:

What a prick. What's been good though is that since this was posted, people have came forward with testimonies about him approaching them, and being aggressive when rejected. Also, it's came out that he's currently at college training to become a carer for vulnerable people. Also also, he was a burgeoning rap artist in the early 2000s, and was also a drug dealer. I know this as I'm sure a friend got some weed from him one time way back. Wild. But still, a massive prick.

Guy has now been charged with sexual assault and four counts of breach of the peace.

karma police

g.man

Armitage_Shankburn

tigerswiftly wrote:

I have concerns regarding how hard some people push the notion of not 'gendering' children and allowing them complete free choice, even before they are old enough to really understand. We have 3 ostensibly trans children at my school of 400 pupils odd, for some slight context.

One insisted last year that they didn't want to be referred to as a girl anymore. Their parents were very much on board with her being old enough to make this decision. She was 8 years old. And, well, she's 'grown out of it'. Was it societal influence, or attention seeking, or... Who knows? Maybe she'll change her mind again. Maybe she's too young too understand. I suppose I have concerns regarding the celebration in some quarters of a child knowing themselves well enough to insist on different pronouns because so many trans people say they knew from a very early age, but I think there are elements of projection that aren't helpful and it is incredibly confusing for young people.

Children being exposed to all this stuff with the immediacy of untempered online access is an unresolved Issue. I'm curious and concerned about the impact - Children on the whole are far less mature and socially capable now (far less) but also far more knowledgeable about once taboo areas. What impact will this have? Who knows?

One of my issues re: debates is how fucking hard it is to decry or question any notion or action related to race or identity politics stuff without being lambasted as a bastard. I follow a lot of very left leaning writers and some of the stuff they spout is fucking mental, but if anyone questions it they are hit by a battalion of 'online SJW' types. Ew, that phrase.

It's all rather difficult.

Has no one read this ITT?

Why is Linehan "not helping things" or "is a bellend"?

Because he opposes a charity that seems to promote something which is not tested or evidence based?

I have heard stories from teachers of kids self-id ing and reverting. My mum too. It didn't help the bullying. A lot of contortion over owt.

And taking puberty blockers... Then while you are barely able to think straight potentially do a sex change.

There is no doubt we need to be very careful here. I see in particular from trans people and their left wing supports utter hysteria.

I'm 100% with Linehan and Mumsnet. I don't care if it slows down progress. Progress should be slow when we are talking about fucking with private parts. Private parts are the best fucking thing in the whole fucking world.

Dicks are fucking amazing - spread the word. We should do everything we can to preserve dicks.

Facewon

and we are now telling lifelong feminist campaigners shut your fucking trap and it's the right progressive thing to do

This is where I'm at with it. Agree with your post. Have linked to a few pieces in here and some links to links. Haven't read them all, but the gist is pretty easy to see. And the dialogue is clearly broken, because there's folks laying out what seem pretty rational arguments being terfed.

Facewon

Should mention I'm also with everyone else in here who has some confusion and isn't sure where they stand on specifics.

Diluted Dante

Pretty sure we've been through why what's being spouted about Mermaids is utter guff.

poprock

Armitage_Shankburn wrote:

I'm 100% with Linehan and Mumsnet.

I’m taking neither side of this argument, but that is a phrase I never thought I would see from anyone on the Bear & Badger.

Never stop surprising me, guys.

Armitage_Shankburn

Diluted Dante wrote:

Pretty sure we've been through why what's being spouted about Mermaids is utter guff.

Quote the post where you did that

Armitage_Shankburn

Diluted Dante wrote:

The amendment at the bottom of the article sums the whole thing up.

This story has been amended. It previously said Mermaids was "campaigning to allow those under 16 to be able to undergo gender reassignment surgery", which it does not.

Lies from scumbags makes peoples lives worse should be the headline.

Is this blinkered take "it"?

Snap out of it lads. You're going wahwah

Diluted Dante

Blinkered, fucking lol.

Armitage_Shankburn

It is exactly that.

1. A correction on one aspect of the story.
2. Leaves every other bit of the story - an extremely balanced article btw - intact and yet
3. Your take is that the story should be "lies from scumbags"

What the fuck is wrong with you buddy? You have a brain same as everyone else, why don't you fucking use it eh?

Armitage_Shankburn

Then there is the hate for Robert Webb for "cosying up to Linehan".

Armitage_Shankburn

You know what? You, tenpy, and a bunch of others would HUGELY BENEFIT from quitting Twitter and Facebook.

Diluted Dante

I could probably benifit more from you rage quitting the forum again.

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories