Misogyny and other gender issues. - The Bear and Badger

Kara_Jane_Addams

Lord_Griff wrote:

Should we burn the tapes of that little weird blond kid who used to sell antiques?

Yes.

But not for that reason.

Buckminster

I already burned them, sorry. Shame as they'd be worth something now (as antiques, ho ho).

Diluted Dante

cockbeard wrote:

Interesting, I wonder at what point the deadname is allowed if referring to someone in a historical context. Just I think of Laura Jane Grace, who mentioned publicly the name she later took back in 2007, but didn't publicly come out until five years later. So at what point did Tom Gabel end (haha) and Laura start. Likely easier to just use the current name is it not?

I think in almost all contexts its fine to use Laura Jane Grace. The only context I can think of where it might be necessary to use Tom Gabel is if you're talking about her transition. There are probably others, but as you say, likelier easier to use the current name in most circumstances.

Armitage_Shankburn

Armitage_Shankburn wrote:

Armitage_Shankburn wrote:

RedDave2 wrote:

Andy wrote:

Show me evidence, people. Not that evidence. Other evidence.

Well, he did ask for tweets specifically I suppoose Here is an interesting article on the police involvement. Not really much to do with the topic here but interesting non the less. - https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2018/12/20/37275129/fighting-on-twitter-in-the-uk-you-could-be-arrested-for-that More on the main issue of the police visit can be found here but while plenty of screenshots of the other sides complaints from twitter can be found all the ones relating to Linehan are simply 'alleged' -https://www.dailydot.com/irl/graham-linehan-court-battle-deadname-trans-woman/ And finally an article breaking down Grahams approach to the debate based on quotes from the guy. https://medium.com/@notCursedE/graham-linehan-finally-breaks-silence-on-transphobic-it-crowd-episode-c3d85f2445d9 I also tried to access an article which first put me on to Linehans style of...debate from independant.co.uk but I cant find it. Here's one for those who are wondering what the mermaid thing is about - https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/mermaids-trans-charity-children-big-lottery-fund-support-transphobia-graham-linehan-a8688701.html Granted none of this gives you a specific tweet from him but as I said, I'm not on twitter. I just find that the way he comes across is as a bully, a zealot. That doesnt mean he is wrong or maybe partially right, but I think he can do better. I certainly dont think he helps the discussion (I cant find the guardian article but the Robert Webb one is so much more reasoned.

That first article makes me rather well disposed to the man. I'll keep an eye out for the case, and post the judgment ITT. If it even gets that far. Reading between the lines, the claim is that he retweeted an account, and that account, in another tweet, IDed her. Sounds super vexatious.

This is just a note to myself to look for this case. I suspect it'll have been thrown out. There's never any follow up on these stories, but ozno never forgets a slight

Do, a while back the case of Stephanie Hayden suing Linehan for "deadnaming" her (or rather, retweeting a tweet from someone who, in another tweet, had "deadnamed" her), came up as an example of his transphobic behaviour.

As I intimated, Hayden has a history of suing people, is a convicted criminal etc.

But anyway, here she is triumphantly announcing her "win" - namely that she has withdrawn her action, but because the case did not reach court, Linehan bears his own costs so it's cost him 28k. Big win for the trans cause that.

https://mobile.twitter.com/flyinglawyer73/status/1111340746639138818?lang=en

Here's a legal forum take on it, including Linehan's comments and a lovely dig (she now "identifies as a lawyer")

https://www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/transgender-lawyer-drops-case-against-father-ted-writer

so, sadly, no judgment, but it's only a matter of time.

cockbeard

Sounds like Langdell, but about sex not patents

Should be laws against legal trolling, but that means more laws and therefore more trolling, shite state of affairs

regmcfly

monkey wrote:

Matrix 1 is very good at what it does. 2 and 3 are dire. There’s some nice ideas in there but the overall story goes to shit immediately and so even the few ok bits just become a bunch of stuff that happens.

If I read something about the Coen Sisters’ new film and last I’d heard they were brothers, it’s fairly normal to be surprised by that. “World gone mad” goes a little further than that but Davy held his hands up, didn’t take the get out when it was offered to him.

Kow genuinely wasn’t being transphobic as best articulated here.

Armitage_Shankburn wrote:

There is absolutely nothing to call out. He said their gender doesn't affect the fact that in his opinion, their movies are shit. In the context of a discussion of their having transitioned, it would have been entirely odd to say, the wachoskis movies are shit. The reference to what their gender was then, and now, reinforced the point. It wasn't transphobic. It did not "deadname” them.

Reg shat the bed. The Woke Sheriff has just deputised him and he marched straight into the saloon and blew someone’s head off for whistling.

And I hope that clears everything up.

Monkeys post is accurate. I stand by the message I said - I don't think discussion of gender was needed in a conversation about their filmmaking - but the tone of it was (ironically?) Willy waving of the highest degree. Then I doubled down, explaining how I was so right-on.

It was shitty, and I was rightly called out for it.

I've apologised to Know who has kindly accepted it and I apologise to everyone else on here for my behaviour, and I'm going to pop off here for the weekend to
A) enjoy my birthday and

ensure I spend the time to make sure I post in a more constructive way.

g.man

Happy Birthday H!

mistercrayon

JonB wrote:

equinox_code wrote:

tbf there are also peeps out there who do change gender on a whim. I have met more than one person who claimed some days they were a guy and other days they were a girl.

Yeah, that's another thing again. And frankly I've no idea where we are at that point. Just let them get on with it, I guess.

Them terfs would say that as men we have the luxury of allowing people to “get on with it”.

Kow

We need a terf accountant.

Kow

I don't know what terf is.

RedDave2

Isn't a sponge bullet game for kids of all ages and genders?

cockbeard

Posh grass isn't it?

Lord_Griff

You must be hungry.

Kow

Terf luck.

nick_md

Yeah I too went off on one a bit, apologies to everyone.

GooberTheHat

A productive day or two in here then. Some inappropriate comments were called out, but in an inappropriate manner. The inappropriateness of everyone's behaviour was examined and explained. Those who needed to held up their hands, admitted to the errors they made and we have all learned from it.

Well done forum.

And happy birthday Reg, enjoy the weekend.

Armitage_Shankburn

I apologise to me, for being too awesome and always right about everything. It's why no one likes me, smug cunt that I am. So sorry to me, ozno - genuine apologies

monkey

Alls well that ends well. Bday Reg.

Armitage_Shankburn

Just for the record, if reg says I apologised by PM for being OTT myself, it's yet another one of his lies. I never apologise, see post above

GooberTheHat

Lies. I read the sports thread.

Kow

Hugs all round. Cunts.

poprock

Happy birthday Hollis!

yourfavouriteuncle

nick_md wrote:

Yeah I too went off on one a bit, apologies to everyone.

You really didn’t so no need for em.
Reg was a bit vociferous but passionate about something he encounters during his work so now we’re all friends which is just as it should be.

The Daddy

There’s a thread for this FFS!

LivDiv

The film thread?

Facewon

"Kelly Morgan is a trailblazer.

Born Nicholas Gareth Morgan, she played representative rugby for east Wales as a teenager.

Injury ended that initial involvement with the sport but, after a decade wrestling with gender identity and transitioning to female, Kelly is back playing - and loving it."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/49298550

Pretty run of the mill article about a trans athlete.

I assume BBC have guidelines and this reads pretty plain and simple.

I do find the use of middle names a bit weird in these things though. It's not an obit, calm down.

cockbeard

Hmm, I probably come off as prejudiced when specifically talking about athletes and sporting competition, but it's pretty shitty for women who have benefited from early life test exposure to compete against women who haven't had that benefit is just a straight up shitty thing to do

In sports where the physical differences between men and women are far less important, shooting, golf, snooker, darts, you don't see an many transitions towards female, nor do you see anywhere near as many transitions towards male under those circumstances. Which does make you wonder about the motivations, or if there are specific cultural reasons why sprinters and body builders who are just outside the elite levels of their sport seem to choose to transition to female

GooberTheHat

While I agree there seem to be issues with fairness, the thought that someone would go through all of the associated difficulties that come with transitioning, just to be more competitive at a sport (which probably doesn't pay as well as the men's game) seems unlikely to me.

GurtTractor

Just get rid of gender categories in sports, use performance brackets instead.

Facewon

I was largely posting that as an example of how a news org presents trans folks (when that news rpg isn't Murdoch gutter trash trying to hammer a point home.)

However, there's been plenty written in here before about women's sports.

There's a bunch of variables that make blanket statements seem silly to me.

Semaya defo seems hard done by, and for every example of a trans athlete seemingly "dominating, " there's some knucklehead takes with pics going oh err look how big s/he is (scarequote and/or misgender depending on how nasty they want to be.)

Most obvious one I can remember was about to trans runners in NCAA.

They were finishing mid tier in Div 3. Which means there were..... What? A few HUNDRED faster female runners in college.

Same with this rugby example. (I have no idea if there's a national team or not, but it's not like they're saying in the above link she immediately joined the elite of the elite.)

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