Final Fantasy - General - The Bear and Badger

Verecocha

Tried the demo again as this would be perfect over my night shifts to put a few hours into, but I just can’t seem to get on with it. Is the unbelievable cheesiness the same all the way through? I was excited about it being real time combat as Turn Based is a huge turn off for me, but that boss fight is so boring it’s unbelievable. And it just felt odd continuously slashing at those guard dog type creatures.

Yet I know demo’s don’t always do the final game justice, would I continuously pick holes in it and find it annoying?

Tempy

By the sounds of it, yes

Minnesänger

I wasn’t enamoured with the demo but the full game combat is worse.

You have a combat system that has a block and a dodge, but the dodge isn’t worth much as tracking is insane, and block only works on certain attacks (sometimes with no way to know until you get hit by them).

There’s no animation cancelling and windups are pretty much non-existent so you can’t block reactively.

There’s huge amounts of stagger which isn’t so bad in the beginning but against multiple enemies it’s horrendous. You’ll constantly be staggered while enemies stand and take your biggest hits. If your attack is interrupted you’ll also lose whatever atb charge you were using for your upcoming attacks.

The general rule is magic = not blockable while physical = blockable, but there’s multiple enemies that break this rule and attack windups are so fast there’s no time to react.

There’s no iframes upon damage, it seems, so you’ll often get staggered and knocked back into other attacks and there’s nothing you can do.

You can, technically, know which attacks are coming but:

1. The notice above the enemy for an incoming attack is small and combat is very busy and flashy...because Nomura.
2. Your animations are super slow, so even if you manage to see an attack is blockable it’s too late.

Minnesänger

Tempy wrote:

Nomura is a hack but I liked what I played of the combat in the demo, so I guess we’ll see. I remain sceptical of the Remake until such time that I play it. I listened to the remake of Anxious Heart, one of FFVII’s best tracks, and it just isn’t a patch on the original. Fussy instrumentation makes it overbearing, misses the somber tome of the original.

You might like it. I’m at the point where it’s rubbed me up the wrong way. So much so that I’m likely being overly nit picky and unfair.

Verecocha

Tempy wrote:

By the sounds of it, yes

Haha, thanks for your honesty Temps, can only get it digitally at the moment so don’t really wanna bother without the option of getting rid if it isn’t for me. Will leave it for now.

EvilRedEye

Minnesänger wrote:

I’m likely being overly nit picky and unfair.

Yeah, on this note, just a polite reminder that we're in the middle of a massive pandemic situation and while you're perfectly entitled to buy something that you're clearly not gonna be receptive to, play it and comment on it, it not a great time for a bunch of people who are out to dislike something turning the thread on it into a big Debbie Downer party. I'm not saying that's happened yet but it feels like it's going that way.

Minnesänger

I think it’s unfair to say I wouldn’t be receptive to it - I gave FFXV a chance before anyone else here and sang it’s praises despite how messy it was, and I’m as big an ff7 fan as anyone here.

But I am aware that it’s no fun to have people repeatedly drop into a thread when people are generally enjoying it and say sth. is shit. I’ll stay aware of that, and if people like it then I’ll be happy they enjoy it. I’m not gonna try and convince people their fun is wrong.

JonB

Minnesänger wrote:

I wasn’t enamoured with the demo but the full game combat is worse. You have a combat system that has a block and a dodge, but the dodge isn’t worth much as tracking is insane, and block only works on certain attacks (sometimes with no way to know until you get hit by them). There’s no animation cancelling and windups are pretty much non-existent so you can’t block reactively. There’s huge amounts of stagger which isn’t so bad in the beginning but against multiple enemies it’s horrendous. You’ll constantly be staggered while enemies stand and take your biggest hits. If your attack is interrupted you’ll also lose whatever atb charge you were using for your upcoming attacks. The general rule is magic = not blockable while physical = blockable, but there’s multiple enemies that break this rule and attack windups are so fast there’s no time to react. There’s no iframes upon damage, it seems, so you’ll often get staggered and knocked back into other attacks and there’s nothing you can do. You can, technically, know which attacks are coming but: 1. The notice above the enemy for an incoming attack is small and combat is very busy and flashy...because Nomura. 2. Your animations are super slow, so even if you manage to see an attack is blockable it’s too late.

Sounds like you're still playing it more like an action game, but it's still sort of turn-based in practice and demands some adjustment. You can't get away with attacking relentlessly and then expect to dodge when the enemy responds. It's more like dodge/block/run until there's an opening, get some hits in, back off again, until you're charged up. Timing spells and abilites is also crucial - you can't sneak them in quickly if the enemy is already primed to attack. Or of course switch to another character who isn't being targeted to biuld up quickly.

I think it works well and in a way that maintains a sense of the original

digi

JonB wrote:

Minnesänger wrote:

I wasn’t enamoured with the demo but the full game combat is worse. You have a combat system that has a block and a dodge, but the dodge isn’t worth much as tracking is insane, and block only works on certain attacks (sometimes with no way to know until you get hit by them). There’s no animation cancelling and windups are pretty much non-existent so you can’t block reactively. There’s huge amounts of stagger which isn’t so bad in the beginning but against multiple enemies it’s horrendous. You’ll constantly be staggered while enemies stand and take your biggest hits. If your attack is interrupted you’ll also lose whatever atb charge you were using for your upcoming attacks. The general rule is magic = not blockable while physical = blockable, but there’s multiple enemies that break this rule and attack windups are so fast there’s no time to react. There’s no iframes upon damage, it seems, so you’ll often get staggered and knocked back into other attacks and there’s nothing you can do. You can, technically, know which attacks are coming but: 1. The notice above the enemy for an incoming attack is small and combat is very busy and flashy...because Nomura. 2. Your animations are super slow, so even if you manage to see an attack is blockable it’s too late.

Sounds like you're still playing it more like an action game, but it's still sort of turn-based in practice and demands some adjustment. You can't get away with attacking relentlessly and then expect to dodge when the enemy responds. It's more like dodge/block/run until there's an opening, get some hits in, back off again, until you're charged up. Timing spells and abilites is also crucial - you can't sneak them in quickly if the enemy is already primed to attack. Or of course switch to another character who isn't being targeted to biuld up quickly.

I think it works well and in a way that maintains a sense of the original

@cinty: Your doing it wrong, get gud scrub!

Minnesänger

digi wrote:

@cinty: your doing it wrong!
Git gud son!

Eh?

I’m getting through the game just fine. I’m not struggling with the combat...I just think it’s not very good.

Minnesänger

Can we please not do the:

If you don’t like = you’re playing it wrong

Thing.

digi

I'm only joking with ya pal, but you kinda are doing it wrong as Jon explained.

If you remember the old ff7 even when you block you take chip damage, attacks can be evaded but you have to watch and learn wich to block, parry or evade.
Clouds stance (triangle for punisher) then (hold R1 for) block auto parry/counters physical attacks.
Most magic can be evaded or blocked or equip stuff on armour to lower damage taken too.

(equip fire on bangle to half fire damage taken for example or alternatively equip ice on weapon to do ice damage too as enemy is weak to ice when using fire)

Basically your attacks and blocks are filling your atb gauges so you can attack or heal etc and that's were the real strategy comes in.

I'm loving the combat and materia etc.
If your streaming cinty gies a shout il see if I can watch shareplay/strim and help you out a bit.

It soon gets tougher and tests you more.

Minnesänger

...fuck me.

digi

Minnesänger wrote:

...fuck me.

Washing my hair mate, sorry.

acemuzzy

JonB

Minnesänger wrote:

Can we please not do the: If you don’t like = you’re playing it wrong Thing.

I really didn't mean it like that. Just speaking from my own experience of getting frustrated with it at times, for the reasons you mentioned, but then finding ways to deal with it.

ShabbyMcCrabby

My bad...

Kernowgaz

I’m bad, I found the first boss quite hard.

digi

Kernowgaz wrote:

I’m bad, I found the first boss quite hard.

Practice makes pervert.

Kernowgaz

digi wrote:

Kernowgaz wrote:

I’m bad, I found the first boss quite hard.

Practice makes pervert.

You calling me a fucking pervert???

digi

Kernowgaz wrote:

digi wrote:

Kernowgaz wrote:

I’m bad, I found the first boss quite hard.

Practice makes pervert.

You calling me a fucking pervert???

I was referring to myself.

Time_on_my_hands

Well, I'm really enjoying this. Only on chapter 3 or 4 and I understand the criticism of the combat, but it would be difficult to do differently without throwing out everything from the original and starting from scratch.

The game's got a lot of charm but I'm curious how the continuity to part 2 will be considering that all character, materia and weapon progression will need to be reset.

JonB

I'm not sure they will necessarily, but it depends where they go from here and we've still no idea about that.

Time_on_my_hands

JonB wrote:

I'm not sure they will necessarily, but it depends where they go from here and we've still no idea about that.

Right now I wonder if they're hedging their bets and putting enough content in this that people won't be too disappointed if there aren't any more.

cosmicjellybean

I think there has to be another one, they spent so much time focusing on Wutai, and alluding to things that won’t happen in this game, that there sort of has to be another. Whether it’s another one, or another two, or another 4 is the big question. I think they could get away with only one more by doing a more ‘faithful’ recreation of other areas, say each other town is the size roughly of a Wall Street or a slums. And getting rid of a world map...

Tempy

Can’t wait for the Rebuild of Eva style second part where instead of spoiler dying, someone else does, and also redacted isn’t actually redacted, but instead he is redacted! Also you go to the Northern Crater to find that there’s already a dead Spoiler there, but no one comments on it and everyone just screams “What the fuck” at their TV as they plot follows the original despite this glaring difference.

EvilRedEye

@cosmicjellybean The FFVII polygon figures are on the UK Square Enix store now: https://store.eu.square-enix-games.com/en_GB/product/605223/final-fantasy-vii-polygon-figure-set-of-8-box-version

MattyJ

This has finally turned up today. Packing notice inside said it was packed on 9th April, so not sure why it wasn't actually posted to me until yesterday.

Anyway, have got it installing and hopefully get to play it today or tomorrow!

Tempy

Easter Weekend, same happened with some of my post.

EvilRedEye

Still nothing for me! My post turns up at weird times at the moment though.

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