Comedian Comedy HAHA LOL Thread Thread - The Bear and Badger

poprock

Okay, I’m gonna look at one specific example.

Rob Oldham in that Guardian article wrote:

“He kicks down an awful lot. The fall people are always women, gay people, Iraqis. His routines deliver devastating one-liners to members of the hospitality industry.” Take the famous “What are you reading for?” routine, in which Hicks recalls being asked this question by a waffle waitress, who becomes the butt of the joke.

For me, that’s just demonstrating that Oldham missed the point. He’s pointing out that Hicks chose to belittle a waitress. But he didn’t. He belittled American society. He’s punching down at illiteracy and stupidity, not at one specific person. The butt of that joke was America, of which Hicks is part. He’s not victimising a woman, he’s using anger at poor education standards to point out that America should be aiming higher.

This is what I mean about the comics in that article being technically correct, but missing the point by a mile.

I also think that Hicks would have been doing a different act if he were alive and working today. His comedy reflected its time, as it should.

Yossarian

Doesn’t that bit end with the punchline “and because I don’t want to be a fucking waffle waitress”?

Which isn’t to say that I don’t see what you’re saying, but I can certainly see why others might view it differently.

poprock

This is not a hill I want to die on, or anything. I’m just finding it interesting to think aloud on why the article bugged me.

Kow

The way I see it, a lot of comedy uses irony, exaggeration etc to get a point or joke across - something that the Twitter generation seems to sail right past as they slap out labels. It's not that I want comedians to be directly abusive or insulting, just that I want them to be able to do their thing without worrying over every word they use.

Yossarian

I don’t think anything has changed on that front, there’s just a different set of topics and words that people are careful around.

Kazuo

I'd have thought it was 'additional' rather than 'different' topics people were careful about their language around.

Yossarian

Depends how far back you want to go, I guess, but even back in the 90s I imagine that many comedians would think twice about using the word ‘cunt’ for instance. Which isn’t to say that they wouldn’t use it, but I expect that back then it had more power to divide a room if used in the wrong place than it does now.

poprock

Yossarian wrote:

Doesn’t that bit end with the punchline “and because I don’t want to be a fucking waffle waitress”? Which isn’t to say that I don’t see what you’re saying, but I can certainly see why others might view it differently.

Yes and yes. The joke does go that way, and it is punching downwards. But I think that has to be okay, in the interest of making a perfectly valid (angry) point.

I think I believe that comedy needs to be universally angry/curious/etc – that you can’t make exemptions based on what topics are taboo or not. I’m not sure. I think that’s where my gut instinct leans. I feel perfectly okay with Hicks pointing out that lack of education leaves a person stuck in a shitty job.

Kow

They might have divided the audience but they wouldn't have risked having their career destroyed by a bunch of people who probably weren't even in the room

Vela

poprock wrote:

Just been reading this quite depressing piece from The Guardian about young comedians’ takes on Bill Hicks. Nothing they’re saying is wrong, but as a whole it leaves me feeling like the world is a much drearier place than it was. It’s a strong reminder of how public figures nowadays have unrealistic demands placed on their integrity – any flaws somehow nullifying the good points of their work. I mean – Hicks was an asshole, but also a genius and a rabble-rouser. Picasso was a misogynist but also arguably the greatest painter of all time. Michael Jackson was almost certainly a peado but he was also one of the greatest songwriters of his century. Cobain was a fucking junkie but he also wrote Smells Like Teen Spirit. People are flawed, sometimes horribly flawed, but it does not negate their work or their worth completely. And I think that by struggling to stay on the right side of black and white morality at all times, comedians (and any form of artists) risk losing their teeth and claws. I think they risk neutering themselves.

My thoughts on this are that whilst its fine to assess or re-assess past standards with current ones, it should be done for the benefit of learning today and not pilloring someone who did it yesterday. All too often today it strays into a twitter mob of langoliers who rove from one outrage fest to another in an insatiable quest for moral superiority.

In one sense at least Hicks doesn't have to put up with the banality of a social media hit job.

On the other hand, I hope all modern comedians are preparing a profuse apology for every transgression they are making right now from the perspective of people alive in 2050. Because really, every single one of them is a bigot eventually.

Yossarian

Brass Eye paedophile special? Jerry Springer the Opera?

Actually, Jerry Springer’s a good example. Can you imagine that causing so much controversy today?

Edit: Kow.

poprock

Yossarian wrote:

Depends how far back you want to go, I guess, but even back in the 90s I imagine that many comedians would think twice about using the word ‘cunt’ for instance. Which isn’t to say that they wouldn’t use it, but I expect that back then it had more power to divide a room if used in the wrong place than it does now.

I think you’d be surprised on that one. Stand up comedy has been using severe profanity since the beginning. It’s just that the stuff you see on TV/Radio used to be a lot more sanitised. I reckon it’s broadcast that has changed over the years, more than stand-up.

What you did see a lot in the ’90s was comedy based on misogyny. Sexism still got big laughs. That feels awkward to look back on, in the same way that the racism of the ’70s does.

poprock

Vela wrote:

… stuff.

Yep. I’m on the same page as Vela. Well put, that.

Yossarian

Although there’s no outrage mob at work here. A journalist asked some comedians for their opinion, the comedians gave their opinions. That’s all it is.

poprock

Vela was just using Twitter/social reaction as an example of how celebrities come under greater scrutiny and thus have adapted their behaviour and art.

Tempy

Yet here's Bryan Singer helming an Oscar winning film. Stuff's still fucked.

poprock

Not for Best Director, thankfully. Hopefully the revelations about Singer make it hard for him to get hired again. I don’t think they should have coloured the Academy’s voting on a film made prior to those revelations.

poprock

This made me smile a little. Yes, We Got All the Way Through the Oscars Without Hearing Bryan Singer’s Name Even Once

LivDiv

The Singer shit has been around for years.
An Open Secret was released over 4 years ago.

poprock

Fair point.

Lord_Griff

Yossarian wrote:

Although there’s no outrage mob at work here. A journalist asked some comedians for their opinion, the comedians gave their opinions. That’s all it is.

Maybe they were joking?

bad_hair_day

afgavinstan wrote:

Bill Burr on Thursday! Yas!

Quite jealous of you Gav. The man has skills.

afgavinstan

Yeah, he's amazing. Last time I saw was bloody good too, bar the constant Glasgow hecklers thinking they're hilarious, and the fight that broke out mid-set.

Bigger venue this time and not a Friday night so should be better in the crowd.

Dark Soldier

Wait til the twitterati come after Burr, they'll burn it all down until its all just jokes about bums and willies and teapots and politics ahaha

bad_hair_day

He won’t give a fuck if they do. Burr’s bought his home and made investments to insulate himself from the Twits.

Dark Soldier

Imagine they came after Roy Chubby Brown

Lord_Griff

Dark Soldier wrote:

Imagine they came after Roy Chubby Brown

I don't want to picture Roy's cum face thnx.

Yossarian

Just booked tickets for Stewart Lee in December. Woo!

SpaceGazelle

Fucking hell, to get offended by Goat Boy is top lol. Goat boy (even without the intended irony of religious kid fucking) is about the British being offended by Goat Boy, and now they actually are. Amazing.

nick_md

Posted this in the No Subject thread but probs makes sense here too:

Anyone interested in a face value Marc Maron ticket? I can no longer accompany my girlfriend to see the WTF podcast and GLOW actor's London show on 6th April at the Festival Hall. Gutted.

He also has a great series on Netflix.

There's a ticket going for face value of £32 if anyone's interested? You'd have to sit next to my girlfriend, but she's ace.

Let me know if you're interested.

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