Weird Stuff (tinfoil hat wearing goons only, please) - The Bear and Badger

Roujin

They can't prove exactly where oumuamua came from because once it's captured in the gravity pull from a star it essentially erases it's previous trajectory.

Edit: So the best they can do is work out where it could have come from based on how it entered the solar system, but it's impossible to tell exactly what it was doing before it got here, even if it lines up with another solar system.

monkey

Aliens know how to cover their tracks.

Yossarian

superflyninja wrote:

@Yossarian
But what evidence to the contrary? Can you pop some links? Im not having a go, in the course of me looking into this what I can see is we lack enough facts on the object to form a clear understanding. If there is something Ive missed please link it.

I’m not following this particular case all that closely, I’m talking in more general terms.

Scientists who speculated that the Wow signal could have come from an extraterrestrial origin weren’t branded kooks. Scientists who suggested that Europa might show evidence of life weren’t called kooks.

Honestly, the argument that he’s being branded a kook simply for speculating that this could be alien sounds more like the position of an anti-vaxxer or climate change denier than that of a serious scientist.

Dinostar77

I get that roujin, its just i cant see anyone sensible suggesting that the object crossed the intergalactic medium on more than one occasion. Crossing interstellar space on more than one occasion is feasible. It could just be a rock from the Oort cloud which encases our entire solar system. The Oort cloud is stupidly large.

monkey

You don’t tip off a potentially hostile planet about your existence. You hide in a giant space cigar and do a reccy. A few trips around a few different suns so they can’t pinpoint an origin. And clear off before they even know what they’ve seen.

This is basic stuff.

Roujin

Someone should tell the USAF to stop all that research into stealth technology tbh.

dynamiteReady

Dinostar77 wrote:

To be fair to Loeb, and I'm definitely oversimplifying this here, his basic challenge to the commonly accepted theory, to a layman, doesn't sound too far fetched. If you pare it right down, consensus suspects: - That Oumuamua is a hydrogren icecube which came from a few galaxies away. When it got to the solar system, the sun melted it's surface, and the melted hydrogen somehow combusted, providing enough acceleration to fly out of the solar system, in an event that has never been witnessed before.

Been staying out of this conversation but im intrigued by what dynamite said. Thst Oumuamua has travelled from a few galaxies away? That cant be right. Firstly how could you provide that? Has an authoritative source actual confirmed that or is that just a hypothesis. Cause i am genuinely intrigued. That would make it the first object i ever heard of coming from another galaxy. Dynamite, did you mean another solar system in the milky way? Sounds more plausible.

This Galaxy - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carina_Dwarf_Spheroidal_Galaxy - was offered as a potential candidate for a source of origin, by one of the key proponents of the commonly accepted theory for what Oumuamua might be. The scientist who authored the paper goes by the name of Dr Darryl Seligman. I won't claim to have read the paper. I've just been looking at a few summaries, that's all.

So yes. Probably not exactly 'a few galaxies away', but the fact that we can observe it, I guess, probably makes it closer than most astrophysicists would take for being 'far'.

Dinostar77

Cheers dynamite will have a look at it. I was only mentioning the Oort cloud as i really dont think people have a concept of how large it is. Its billions of asteriods between us and Alpha Centuri. So there is a higher probability of it having come from there than another star system or another galaxy.

superflyninja

Yossarian wrote:

superflyninja wrote:

@Yossarian But what evidence to the contrary? Can you pop some links? Im not having a go, in the course of me looking into this what I can see is we lack enough facts on the object to form a clear understanding. If there is something Ive missed please link it.

I’m not following this particular case all that closely, I’m talking in more general terms. Scientists who speculated that the Wow signal could have come from an extraterrestrial origin weren’t branded kooks. Scientists who suggested that Europa might show evidence of life weren’t called kooks. Honestly, the argument that he’s being branded a kook simply for speculating that this could be alien sounds more like the position of an anti-vaxxer or climate change denier than that of a serious scientist.

In general of course I would agree with this. The problem here is a lack of conclusive evidence in either direction. I think this case is less about Oumouamoua and more about Loeb getting the Rouj treatment for even mentioning aliens.

Regardless of all that, the paper I linked a page or two back suggesting the shape is more likely to be a disc than a cigar is really interesting IMO.

I think we all agree its most likely a fucked up space rock.

Dinostar77

monkey

What if Oumuamua is the tic tac mother ship?

What then eh?

Roujin

I'm not angry and Loeb for mentioning aliens. In 2017 suggesting possible alien origins for Oumuamua was entirely reasonable.

Since then additional research has been carried out, which indicates Oumuamua is so unlikely to be an object of alien origin that those theories can be discounted, all of the unknowns are unknowns that still have more likely natural outcomes to them at this time than it being an object of alien origin.

I'm angry that Loeb is continuing to want to be taken seriously when he says things like the shape of the object are unexplainable, or that it could be a 1mm thin disc in 2021. Those theories have been discounted because the current weight of evidence available and the work done indicates that is so unlikely to be the case that it cannot be counted when much more rational theories now explain the shape, the trajectory and potential origins of Oumuamua. Loeb's reaction to the reports that have been published in the wake of his original papers has been to write a book which the marketing spiel on sites like Amazon say:

"Harvard’s top astronomer lays out his controversial theory that our solar system was recently visited by advanced alien technology from a distant star. In late 2017, scientists at a Hawaiian observatory glimpsed an object soaring through our inner solar system, moving so quickly that it could only have come from another star. Avi Loeb, Harvard’s top astronomer, showed it was not an asteroid; it was moving too fast along a strange orbit, and left no trail of gas or debris in its wake. There was only one conceivable explanation: the object was a piece of advanced technology created by a distant alien civilization. In Extraterrestrial, Loeb takes readers inside the thrilling story of the first interstellar visitor to be spotted in our solar system. He outlines his controversial theory and its profound implications: for science, for religion, and for the future of our species and our planet. A mind-bending journey through the furthest reaches of science, space-time, and the human imagination, Extraterrestrial challenges readers to aim for the stars—and to think critically about what’s out there, no matter how strange it seems."

Dinostar77

monkey wrote:

What if Oumuamua is the tic tac mother ship?

What then eh?

I think you got that the wrong way round. It should be What if Oumuamua was hyper, flux capacitor, 1.21 gigawatts, super star destroyer that the US Navy made look like a flatten sausage cause they ran out of money to make it look star wars cool.

poprock

The US Navy never ever run out of funding, so your theory’s shot right there.

monkey

Roujin wrote:

Yo post this in the weird thread. Dying to see the reaction to that bad boy in there.

monkey

There's a level missing just after the speculation line. 'Suspicious deaths'. Not factually based but that most rational people might think it smells a bit off. David Kelly, Jeffrey Epstein, and probably JFK.

GooberTheHat

Justifiably Sceptical

nick_md

It's a bit weird for me to have UFOs and alien abductions in separate tiers. I guess a UFO can be anything unidentified, and yeah abductions are going to be a step past that I guess, but if you believe in the possibility of UFOs then the possibility of abductions has to be there too?

Roujin

Yeah but I think the distinction is drawn because there are pictures and videos and stuff of "UFOs" be they ultimately of human or extra terrestrial origin, as well as reports and other stuff from places which may or may not be real, hence we can speculate about it, but there is no similar kind of evidence for the abduction theory, only the testimony of the abductees themselves.

monkey

GooberTheHat wrote:

Justifiably Sceptical

Yeah that’s it. Where the official explanation is as unlikely (or more unlikely) than a speculative explanation.

nick_md

Roujin wrote:

Yeah but I think the distinction is drawn because there are pictures and videos and stuff of "UFOs" be they ultimately of human or extra terrestrial origin, as well as reports and other stuff from places which may or may not be real, hence we can speculate about it, but there is no similar kind of evidence for the abduction theory, only the testimony of the abductees themselves.

Fair.

Tempy

Roujin wrote:

Yeah but I think the distinction is drawn because there are pictures and videos and stuff of "UFOs" be they ultimately of human or extra terrestrial origin, as well as reports and other stuff from places which may or may not be real, hence we can speculate about it, but there is no similar kind of evidence for the abduction theory, only the testimony of the abductees themselves.

I agree, UFOs do not indicate abductions, it's a whole different thing IMO.

nick_md

I just mean, if I were an alien with the ability to visit and monitor earth, I'd probably abduct some of the locals for research. We do it all the time with animals, probably.

monkey

Holy shit! Greta Thunberg actually is a time traveller.

Roujin

Bro these little grey aliens probably can watch UFC they don't want it.

Tempy

nick_md wrote:

I just mean, if I were an alien with the ability to visit and monitor earth, I'd probably abduct some of the locals for research. We do it all the time with animals, probably.

But UFO doesn't necessarily mean aliens. I think aliens are incredibly likely in the cosmos, and UFOs are something we will have recorded, but I don't think that aliens are popping here in manned vessels to grab humans, in fact I think it's incredibly unlikely, as fun as theory it is.

Tempy

nick_md

Classic

GurtTractor

Roujin

That mob up there can catch these hands and learn the true meaning of return to monke if they want to wake me up in the middle of the night and take me for a colonoscopy.

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