The Star Wars thread - "Chewie, we're home." - The Bear and Badger

Yossarian

RamSteelwood wrote:

yeah. i'm not trying to defend the film but i'm not sure fortnite had anything remotely relevant or needed in order to watch or understand the film. it was no secret that palpatine was back, and as ERE says, the film literally opens with that news.

(disclaimer: unless fortnite somehow contains the in depth info about how palps is still alive/is he a clone etc. in which case Yoss' point stands!)

Well quite, you don’t know what it contains, and nor did I, so my immediate thought on it starting was WTF, what did I miss?

Yossarian

And frankly, even if the Fortnite stuff didn’t happen, a line in a text crawl is the worst way to reintroduce a major franchise character into a film series imaginable. How can you throw away a reveal like that?

EvilRedEye

Princess Leia, Count Dooku and General Grevious are all introduced in opening crawls (technically General Grevious was introduced in a cartoon series).

Yossarian

Introducing new characters is one thing, reintroducing a major character, and your main antagonist, after a 25 year absence is quite another, particularly when doing so two thirds of the way through a trilogy.

RamSteelwood

Yossarian wrote:

And frankly, even if the Fortnite stuff didn’t happen, a line in a text crawl is the worst way to reintroduce a major franchise character into a film series imaginable. How can you throw away a reveal like that?

i thought your post with the fortnite clip was in response to me initially as if it somehow contained the info!

and the answer to your question is: by not having a plan for the films overall, and having the middle episode kill off the existing big bad with no plan for an alternate

monkey

It’s all Johnson’s fault. All of it.

Yossarian

RamSteelwood wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

And frankly, even if the Fortnite stuff didn’t happen, a line in a text crawl is the worst way to reintroduce a major franchise character into a film series imaginable. How can you throw away a reveal like that?

i thought your post with the fortnite clip was in response to me initially as if it somehow contained the info!

and the answer to your question is: by not having a plan for the films overall, and having the middle episode kill off the existing big bad with no plan for an alternate

Horseshit.

You can argue that a new big bad was needed if you like, but that doesn’t make it necessary to reveal the new big bad in Fortnite.

Yossarian

Just found out about the leaked Trevorrow script for episode 9, this sounds much better (and uses the big bad already in the series, Kylo Ren):

https://www.polygon.com/2020/1/16/21067246/colin-trevorrow-script-star-wars-duel-of-fates-episode-9-reported-leaked-details

RamSteelwood

Yossarian wrote:

RamSteelwood wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

And frankly, even if the Fortnite stuff didn’t happen, a line in a text crawl is the worst way to reintroduce a major franchise character into a film series imaginable. How can you throw away a reveal like that?

i thought your post with the fortnite clip was in response to me initially as if it somehow contained the info! and the answer to your question is: by not having a plan for the films overall, and having the middle episode kill off the existing big bad with no plan for an alternate

Horseshit. You can argue that a new big bad was needed if you like, but that doesn’t make it necessary to reveal the new big bad in Fortnite.

i was referring to the text crawl, as per your post. Stop flipping things to suit your argument.

Revealing anything in fortnite is bollocks. but also they revealed nothing of consequence that wasn't covered in the first moment of the film. so to keep making out like THAT is the thing to hold against the film above all others is frankly ridiculous.

Yossarian

I’m lost here. I covered the text crawl in the first post in that nest of quotes.

Edit: either it happened in Fortnite or it was mentioned in the text crawl, either way, the event of Palpatine’s return didn’t happen in the films. It was referred to in the films, but it happened outside of them. That’s terrible film making.

b0r1s

Nothing wrong with a text crawl intro. These are still based on 50’s serials that did stuff like that. I honestly think this argument is the weakest of the crimes of the last film.

And Fortnite is still not know that was a thing until you mentioned it. *chef’s shrug*

EvilRedEye

Yossarian wrote:

Introducing new characters is one thing, reintroducing a major character... is quite another.

Sequel-era Han Solo was introduced in young adult novel Smuggler's Run. Sequel-era Leia was introduced in young adult novel Moving Target.

Yossarian

There’s nothing wrong with a text crawl intro in and of itself, this one attempted too much.

And yes, the film was shite from top to bottom, but frankly that text crawl intro was one of the few parts I remember as it was so early, so surprising, and the rest of the film was just nonsensical and deeply tedious.

Yossarian

EvilRedEye wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

Introducing new characters is one thing, reintroducing a major character... is quite another.

Sequel-era Han Solo was introduced in young adult novel Smuggler's Run. Sequel-era Leia was introduced in young adult novel Moving Target.

Both characters had full, proper reveals on screen. Frankly, even if they hadn’t, the fact that they were both in the previous films (chronologically) in the series, and weren’t suddenly appearing halfway through a trilogy series in which everyone believed they were dead make this completely incomparable.

superflyninja

monkey wrote:

It’s all Johnson’s fault. All of it.

You deserve a pint for that one sir.

bad_hair_day

Genuinely guffawed at the Rise crawl, but it did seem like something out of a Flash Gordon serial. Sunk down in the seat about five minutes in and hunkered down. Had the fools not learned from TLJ?...

EvilRedEye

Yossarian wrote:

Both characters had full, proper reveals on screen.

Leia is first reintroduced in a piece of spin-off material, is mentioned in the opening crawl and is mentioned repeatedly in dialogue before making an on-screen appearance halfway through the movie, just like Palpatine.

Yossarian

EvilRedEye wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

Both characters had full, proper reveals on screen.

Leia is first reintroduced in a piece of spin-off material, is mentioned in the opening crawl and is mentioned repeatedly in dialogue before making an on-screen appearance halfway through the movie, just like Palpatine.

Yossarian wrote:

Frankly, even if they hadn’t, the fact that they were both in the previous films (chronologically) in the series, and weren’t suddenly appearing halfway through a trilogy series in which everyone believed they were dead make this completely incomparable.

Yossarian

To put it another way, Han and Leia weren’t being reintroduced, they were existing characters within the universe and films already. Of course they were going to be in the sequels, the only surprising thing with the characters who were still alive at the end of RotJ was how long it took Luke to show up.

Characters who were dead at the end of that film are a whole other kettle of fish.

EvilRedEye

A Star Wars villain everyone thought dead, initially reintroduced under a veil of mystery only to fully reappear on camera later down the line... Yeah, The Mandalorian's reintroduction of Boba Fett in Season 2 really sucked.

Yossarian

Um. Okay.

stellavista

Yeah but Babu Frikk yeah?

bad_hair_day

EvilRedEye wrote:

A Star Wars villain everyone thought dead, initially reintroduced under a veil of mystery only to fully reappear on camera later down the line... Yeah, The Mandalorian's reintroduction of Boba Fett in Season 2 really sucked.

FWIW there was always a ‘bet he’s not dead’ among Star Wars fans. Can’t say the same for old Palps.

Yossarian

Despite following practically zero Star Wars media outside the films, even I knew he was supposed to have escaped the Sarlacc pit. Can’t remember where I learnt that, mind.

EvilRedEye

bad_hair_day wrote:

EvilRedEye wrote:

A Star Wars villain everyone thought dead, initially reintroduced under a veil of mystery only to fully reappear on camera later down the line... Yeah, The Mandalorian's reintroduction of Boba Fett in Season 2 really sucked.

FWIW there was always a ‘bet he’s not dead’ among Star Wars fans. Can’t say the same for old Palps.

https://twitter.com/GabbyG41/status/271453344231477250?s=19

bad_hair_day

Back in the day, lad.

RedDave2

Yossarian wrote:

Just found out about the leaked Trevorrow script for episode 9, this sounds much better (and uses the big bad already in the series, Kylo Ren):

https://www.polygon.com/2020/1/16/21067246/colin-trevorrow-script-star-wars-duel-of-fates-episode-9-reported-leaked-details

I still don't get the argument that last jedi kills off the only big bad - when I saw it I thought it was clearly setting a Kylo led new order as the big bad for the third movie. But whatever.

monkey

Yoss is correct here I think. Bringing him back is one thing (I don’t think Ren would have worked personally). Then making him part of the marketing so there’s no chance for a big reveal. So they were right to get straight into it. But yeah just putting that your main antagonist for 6 out of the 8 movies you’ve made is back from the dead in an opening line of text is a shambles. The message he sent out didn’t serve any purpose to the film at all. The Fortnite thing was a single audio clip of Palpatine saying “Surprise bitches. I’m back.” or similar. He wasn’t really introduced outside of the film.

Text should have read “yadda yadda rebels on the run. Meanwhile Adam Driver has shown up at some old planet because he’s been led there by bad dreams / some old artefact of Snoke’s / some other bollocks”. Film begins. Driver shows up. Then out pops the Emperor. “Surprise bitches!”.

That’s the first 5 minutes of the film sorted. Just the other 3 hours to do now.

RedDave2

I'm intrigued by this very street version of palatine that monkey has brought to the table.

LivDiv

RoS was beyond saving. May as well have fun time with Palps.

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