A late entry but Ali deffo gonna take the 'Most incorrect post of 2014' award.

1.Ali
-daylight-
2.Tempy
3.Tempy
4.Tempy
5.Tempy

Not saying which posts though.


The plot is laughable and the performances are tied directly to the dreadful dialogue, soulless blue-screenathon and shite direction.  Lucas had full control and this is what we got.  The plot is not adult, it's convoluted and misguided.  Complex does not mean good, and simple does not mean simplistic.  Stoklasa was spot on.

Thanks. Love you too you cunt..

Just because it was filmed and acted worse than the average school nativity play doesn't mean in the right hands, that plot couldn't have worked brilliantly. But all we got was poo jokes and " faster, more intense" directing. Oh, and that "love is blind" scene. My skin still crawls at that.

Yes, if Kubrick had got hold of the "plot" he could probably have done something with it. So what? He could have done the same with a washing powder ad. Which frankly have more plot than the Phantom Menace.

Ariel: blockading the shit out of your clothes.

The Naboo Starfighter is a great looking ship. Always liked the design of the droid army too - landers, transports and tanks all looked great, and fit together as a force quite logically. They would have made an imposing military sight if Lucas dated elevate them above comedy junk.

Palatine as Iago though, heh. Ok.

The droids are one of he biggest problems for me, stormtroopers were shit shots, but they at least looked threatening on parade. Same as the Trade Federation, Lucas desperate to use CGI for everything so he doesn't have to pay for British character actors and a load of extras.

Tempy wrote:

I'm fact the ship/vehicle design in Ep 1 is largely spot on and unique - pod racers included. I can't remember what a single craft from Ep2/3 look like. Ep1 felt Star Wars-y in that respect, the design was varied and largely on point with factions having definitive, logical designs.

I'll take your word for it but barring a couple of exceptions I can't picture any of them.

monkey wrote:

There's no intelligence to it. The taxation plot is incoherent, the politics is superficial, it's all boring and impossible to follow - not because it's complex but because the story is so poorly told. Palpatine is actually one of the better realised things about the prequels but he's not exactly a well-developed character. He's just evil for the sake of it. What are his motivations, his philosophy, he just wants power and to kill good guys. It's standard kids cartoon character rendering. They're bad films. Name something a film contains and the Phantom Menace is bad at it (plot, dialogue, actors, action sequences, set design, developing audience engagement, even the spaceships are shit and forgettable). The exceptions where it's actually quite good are costume design, character design on some of the aliens and the score which is boss. There may be others.

It's only impossible to follow because of all the other unnecessary shit around it and because Lucas's unedited plots are always useless. If you haven't read it, have a look at the original drafts of Star Wars in "Skywalking", a Lucas biography. Bloated doesn't even start to cover it. It was Leigh Bracket that pulled it all together into the first two films that everyone loves and that no sequel can match. Even Kasdan's work on Jedi isn't as good. But those first two movies boil down to "disparate bunch of good guys rescue princess and defeat bad guys" followed by "disparate bunch of good guys run away from bad guys pissed off about first film". That's it. Anyone saying an 8 year old could have written the prequels but not the original trilogy is talking nonsense. If Empire hadn't been so beautifully made by Kerschner, I'm not even convinced people would hold the originals in such reverence. Imagine if Lucas, buoyed by his success on Star Wars, had been given a free directorial role on Empire instead? It would have been another Phantom Menace moment. And Richard Donner's directing on Jedi was perfunctory at best. It certainly lacked any of the atmosphere of Empire.

That a clever plot was ruined by bad direction and even worse acting can't be disputed because it's completely true, and add to that list unnecessary plot McGubbins that spoiled the whole thing. Should have let Spielberg direct it IMO.

As for the design. There was both good and bad. The trade federation droids were a low point. They could have been threatening until they added that ridiculous voice and all the "roger, roger" nonsense. It turned them into comedy when they were meant to be a threat. I'm surprised the Seperatists didn't win because the Republic were too busy laughing to shoot. Lucas also mistimed so many of the jokes as well, ruining the tone of a lot of scenes. The worst being the Geonosis arena. The Jedi are defeated and about to be slaughtered, all is lost....and C3PO is wandering around with a trade federation body making terrible puns! Completely ruined the impact of the clones finally arriving. In the ObiWan vs Anakin fight I was just waiting for one of them to stand in poo and Jar Jar turn up with his tongue wrapped around something.

I found the droid army awful. Yes aesthetically the army all tied together perfectly, from the ships to the troops to the landers etc. But the look of the droids themselves was shit. Completely non threatening. C3P0 looked tougher.
I have to laugh at the opening crawl of Phantom Menace. There I was in the cinema on the first day..And bang there goes the music and the crawl starts talking about economic blockades and such? My lightsaber flopped like the old peado's in Blue Harvest. (and probably everyone else in the cinema too)
Look the plot with the tax etc was a sideshow. It doesnt matter in the scheme of things. Provided the surrounding stuff was Star Warsy enough. In a good director's and writers hands they could have pulled it off.(oeeer). But Lucas fucking couldnt.
A big problem though in Phantom for me aside from everything else was that fucking kid Anakin. What a super annoying cunt. Total dickhead. Plus he was born from the force??? Literally the force is his daddy. Not very powerful is he though? For all this prophesy talk Darth Vader doesnt turn out to be such a massive world ending power does he?
Lucas is effectively saying that Vader is ForceJesus. Yet without the power that should bring. Its just a complete mess. I think Lucas got lost in his own ego and thought that a green screen could sort out Christiansen and Portman's frankly disgraceful acting.

EDIT @Ali I think we are on a similar page here brutha. Re droids and Lucas fucking things up at least

bad_hair_day wrote:

Go easy chaps, it's only a movie.

Hopefully no ones taking this too seriously.

The plot is not hard to follow due to bloat, it's hard to follow because it's barely there and what is there makes little sense.

Hence the 8 year old comment. Things are strung together illogically with no control like a rambling story made up on the spot by an idiot. Ep 4 on the other hand is lean as hell. You don't need much in these films. A basic framework to get your characters into battles, while making sure you're characters are interesting and develop or do interesting things. It's quite hard to be economical. Eps 1-3 not only lack brevity but theres not one interesting character in the whole 5 odd hours. When the characters do have developments they're poorly handled. And it's only really Anakin that changes in any perceptible way at all.

Oh, and while we're ripping apart the prequels, can I just say "She's lost the will to live" and leave it out there for eyes to roll at? Should have ended with ObiWan desperately getting her lifeless body to a medical facility to save the twins and do away with all that ridiculous shite. And Lucas was using Othello as his base, like it or not. Desdemona dies of strangulation as well....

Ali wrote:

And Lucas was using Othello as his base, like it or not

Using a classic work of literature as the base for your story is not unique, inherently interesting or sufficient to elevate your story above the level of your ability to write it.

Can't argue with that, g. 

But, equally, if there was a button marked (with a very large sticker) "Redo the entire prequel trilogy with Spielberg directing, Kasdan on script and people who can act", I'd press that instead.

In the trade they call it the Prometheus button.