The Star Wars thread - "Chewie, we're home." - The Bear and Badger

b0r1s

Just finished this and it was all a big meh wasn’t it. I’ve not watched clone wars or any of the other cartoons Star Wars have made so guess I’m missing a lot of profound references but I just found the whole thing a bit boring. I kept expecting something major to happen and all we got at the end was a blue Elon Musk who was just about as smart as him. Zombie fucking stormtroopers! Really?? So stormtroopers who are even shitter than normal stormtroopers.

The only character I liked was Balen but seeing as the poor actor pegged it irl I’m guessing they’ll can his storyline which at least had something interesting about going back to the source of all the Jedi/Sith stuff.

So all in, yes it was better than Obi-Wan and Boba but that’s a very low bar.

b0r1s

Nailed it.

Armitage_Shankburn

This one is for G

https://youtu.be/BgMZfIyFhYo?si=mK5NWrXb1yTwKWZ-

g.man

RamSteelwood

Well it's nearly christmas and traditionally there would be a new star wars film coming that we could argue about how terrible/great it is.

In lieu of that, I've been thinking about something that could be an interesting starting point to fire up the inner fan boy and cause a big kerfuffle - or maybe a pleasant discussion, or this just dies on it's arse.

So, the major twist in the OG trilogy, and possibly the catalyst for the whole thing becoming such a phenomenon, is Darth Vader's revelation that he is Luke's father.
However, despite Lucas' best efforts, it's pretty clear and obvious (if you care to dive that deep into all the preproduction scripts and drafts and meeting notes etc) that was never part of the original plans...and it also leads to rather ridiculous decisions in the prequels to leave young Luke being raised with Darth's family, with his surname, on the planet he was raised, and in the place he buried his own mother.

Anyway, the original line when they were filming Empire in order to keep the twist secret was Vader revealing that Obi-wan killed Luke's father.
So my question is, would the whole thing be more logical if they had stuck with that? You could even run it without disrupting too much the other storylines - obiwan had two apprentices, anakin and darth...darth turns to darkside, then turns anakin...obiwan kills anakin in a scrap and vader gets away (hell you could even later reveal that vader left anakin to die to become the emperors number 1 or something).
Obvs messes with the end of Jedi a bit but rather than Luke save vader cos he's his dad, he could do it to resist the path of his father and achieve what obiwan couldn't in redeeming him, or vader turns on the emperor once he realises the emperor was going to replace him with luke, or even just kill vader and the emperor like a big fucking don.

Thoughts and preferred fighting style?

davyK

The story arc of Anakin is the entire premise of the first 6 films. If that story wasn't the original plan and it emerged during the making then that's fine with me. It's what makes the last 3 sequels, particularly the last one such a betrayal of that.

LivDiv

I never really got too hung up on the whole why didn't he find Luke thing.

Vader believed Padme and the kids dead.
He only twigs that Luke is his son when he feels his presence in A New Hope (possibly maybe even later) when in close proximity to Luke after Luke has started some kind of training in connecting to the force.
Luke's connection being key as Vader doesn't pick up on Leia being his daughter.

He has no reason to look for Luke prior.

He is unlikely to go back to visit his Aunt and Uncle as Anakin is effectively dead too at that point. He is Vader and that's all.

By the time he realises Luke is alive and may have thought about going back to his Aunt and Uncle they are a pair of charred skeletons.

GooberTheHat

Yeah, can't remember the last time I saw my Uncle, and I didn't commit a genocide, so I don't even have that excuse.

RamSteelwood

i guess if you like the prequels and are happy with the anakin arc then it's deffo not up for discussion.

for the me the prequel storyline is a poor attempt to resolve an admittedly difficult problem, of writing 3 interesting movies that tie up neatly with the OG trilogy, fitting the things we know have to happen whilst also keeping the material suitable for kids and families and selling merchandise... I'm not saying Daddy Vader is the only problem or that it couldn't have been written better in the prequels, or that changing the reveal would have meant Lucas nailed the prequels either. And obvs the vader reveal is right up there with the greatest 'WTF?' moments in cinema, so I'm not saying it was a bad thing.

I just thing it's an interesting 'sliding doors' moment to think about how the story could have panned out differently if they'd stuck with the 'fake' line.

RamSteelwood

Then again, star wars in my mind is really only the OG trilogy, with the other films these weird things with occasionally interesting/entertaining bits but generally i try to disassociate them as they're not quite right.
there's a multiverse somewhere that we got the OG trilogy as they were basically, and then prequels and sequels that i agree with...I just need to find it

RedDave2

I've just watched all 9 movies with my daughter. Interesting seeing it through a 10 year old eyes. Empire was a bit dull, jedi was great fun, ewoks cool. No one likes jar jar.

She did make a point about revenge of the sith - it has 2 big big duels at the end where you know no one will die. Also seeing as we watched the movies in quick order she immediately called out leis saying she remembered her mother. Also the brother sister thing got called out.

I'll also have to admit I was wrong (very wrong) about last jedi. I still don't think it broke the films, and I think it's OK as a movie but it really does feel out of place compared to the 7 movies that came before and throws away what everyone wanted - the return of heroic Like (daughter did not like "that" luke skywalker). Still does not justify the thrash fire that is 9.

Anyway, I don't know if changing the dynamic makes any huge gains. Of all the problems I have with the star wars movies, vadar being lukes dad is low on the list.

davyK

Frankly, I couldn't care less anymore. I will always go back to the original 3 for a bit of nostalgia from time to time but that's it.

LivDiv

Ive come to the conclusion that the visual and audio design is what I like most about the franchise these days.
Ive watched the movies enough times to know the plots inside out and find the tv shows mostly dull and plodding.

Ill still buy the odd bit of merch. Lego sets and toys mainly and ill put the OST on while reading or working.

Although Lego don't have anything out that I want right now that isn't over £500.

b0r1s

I recall they were go-to comfort films that I watched over and over, even up to my early 30's, but have also come to realise I don't watch them that often anymore. I went back to the last trilogy this year, still enjoyed ~~A New Hope~~ The Force Awakens, just about made it through The Last Jedi, but couldn't be arsed to finish the trilogy.

Give me another season of Andor and I'll be happy.

mannaboy

Vader is German for father, explain that away, George knew what he was doing from day one.

RLM_endless_content.gif

ChopperByrne

Last Jedi has loads of great visuals, and sound.

Luke's character took a huge hit, and obviously there's the bullshit force teleport powers, and using lightspeed as a weapon, but it did set up things nicely for a third film in the arc, and then Abrams just threw it all out the window and made a terrible final film.

Also Laura Dern was sexy as hell in Last Jedi.

thelastjedi5a204fd35aa66-2000-8898526f568647dc96f87bcacddd0824.jpg

thelastjedi5a204fd35aa66-2000-8898526f568647dc96f87bcacddd0824.jpg

LivDiv

I actually dont mind the prequels really but I think its because they look the part more than anything to do with the story. The First Order designs are great upgrades to the Empire.

Those Sith Troopers are dumb but cool as fuck. Stormtroopers but styled up and in red, yes please.

Nobody post a gif of Luke sucking space cow tits please.

davyK

Laura was splendid looking in it.

GooberTheHat

I still think they missed a trick not having Rey turn to the dark side with Kylo Ren returning to to the light side and redeeming himself by killing her, hence Rise of Skywalker.

ShabbyMcCrabby

I think the story of the prequels was fine but it was the telling that was bad. If he'd anchored those movies to the personal tale of Anakin and his personal evolution I think it could have been great. You would see it from his eyes going from a small planet to the big fancy ones, feel more in tune with his emotional turmoil and pushing against the fundamental ideals of being a Jedi. Maybe an actual love story too. You can still have all the political stuff but the films should never go away from Anakin to do it, it should be in the background and happening around him.

Can genuinely picture them being great movies told that way. Where you actually get invested in Anakin and especially in Anakin's and Obi's relationship. Instead it's so emotionally separated from every character and gets caught up with just telling the plot.

Maybe in the multiverse there's a version of those films.

Also Disney announced their release slate for next year and Andor isn't listed with the star wars tv shows. I hope that it was just an error and they'll shadow drop it. Don't want to have to wait till 2025

davyK

Each of the 9 films has something to enjoy and that's all anyone can expect to be honest. It creaks under the weight of expectation.

Lucas created a marvellous universe in which to play. The main story didn't need moving on. There was more than enough room for a whole bunch of new characters and stories with that main story going on in the background. Doing that without getting too hung up on hooking into that main story has huge scope. They just weren't up to it.

g.man

It’s the No Man’s Sky of cinematic universes.
Infinite possibilities, but nothing going on anywhere.

Coopers Green

Hahaha love it.

Time_on_my_hands

g.man wrote:

It’s the No Man’s Sky of cinematic universes.
Infinite possibilities, but nothing going on anywhere.

At least with NMS each update made it better!

RedDave2

I'd love to know whats to enjoy in Attack of the Clones. I got Natalie Portmans belly button and after that I am out.

ChopperByrne

The sound for one.

Jango Fett's mines exploding in a big cinema with booming surround sound was fantastic.

stellavista

If you want a hit of ‘good’ Star Wars this Christmas and haven’t watched it already, then please watch Star Wars Rebels. Yes it’s a cartoon but if you can get over that you’ll have multiple series of an absolutely splendid tale told in the Star Wars universe with characters you will come to care about in a way you haven’t felt since the original trilogy. It really is George Lucas’s vision of Star Wars as a Saturday morning sci-fi adventure serial come real. It has camaraderie, humour, adventure, drama and pew pew.

stellavista

RamSteelwood wrote:

Well it's nearly christmas and traditionally there would be a new star wars film coming that we could argue about how terrible/great it is.

In lieu of that, I've been thinking about something that could be an interesting starting point to fire up the inner fan boy and cause a big kerfuffle - or maybe a pleasant discussion, or this just dies on it's arse.

So, the major twist in the OG trilogy, and possibly the catalyst for the whole thing becoming such a phenomenon, is Darth Vader's revelation that he is Luke's father.
However, despite Lucas' best efforts, it's pretty clear and obvious (if you care to dive that deep into all the preproduction scripts and drafts and meeting notes etc) that was never part of the original plans...and it also leads to rather ridiculous decisions in the prequels to leave young Luke being raised with Darth's family, with his surname, on the planet he was raised, and in the place he buried his own mother.

Anyway, the original line when they were filming Empire in order to keep the twist secret was Vader revealing that Obi-wan killed Luke's father.
So my question is, would the whole thing be more logical if they had stuck with that? You could even run it without disrupting too much the other storylines - obiwan had two apprentices, anakin and darth...darth turns to darkside, then turns anakin...obiwan kills anakin in a scrap and vader gets away (hell you could even later reveal that vader left anakin to die to become the emperors number 1 or something).
Obvs messes with the end of Jedi a bit but rather than Luke save vader cos he's his dad, he could do it to resist the path of his father and achieve what obiwan couldn't in redeeming him, or vader turns on the emperor once he realises the emperor was going to replace him with luke, or even just kill vader and the emperor like a big fucking don.

Thoughts and preferred fighting style?

This reminds me of a rumour I heard before Episode 1 was released. This rumour suggested that the original trilogy Obi Wan was actually Anakin and Darth was actually Obi Wan. There were two variations of the rumour, one with real Obi as Luke’s father and one with real Anakin being Pops. I think hearing that rumour was when I first started getting concerned about the quality of the incoming Episode 1.

ShabbyMcCrabby

I like the theory that Jar Jar was originally meant to turn out to be a sith Lord in the prequel sequels. I think that could have been a good turn. Like how Yoda starts out being a doddering old fool but is actually super powerful.

EvilRedEye

If the Darth Jar-Jar theory was correct, I think Lucas was a complete idiot for not following through with it. Like yeah, people hated the character in Episode I but now you’ve retroactively justified it.

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