Cyberpunk 2077 - new CDProjekt Red
-
nick_md wrote:What I do think should be there is adequate pay for crunch.
...and not blackballing those who can't do it. -
I used to have that too. It was a thing I loved. It depends on who you do it with. But after the panic attack, and with who we have right now, and pay cuts, in management now I do everything I can to avoid it. I make clear that to make the deadline we have to make trade offs. I'm happier with this. I'm not doing the crunch now, others would. In retrospect I think my manager at the time just didn't feel like dissuading us from feeling responsible to pull 15 hour days and weekends for 3 weeks running. It was a cultural issue.
But if I'm honest, the product isn't as good. What has been surprising is to the outside world, it's still more than good enough. That may be the issue with games - if it's a big, it ruins the entire experience.Don't wank. Zinc in your sperms -
Yeah I would echo what Nick says, although I've not been in game studios I've been in similar scenarios.
Deadlines will inevitably require a last push and 6 weeks of 6 days per week isnt too bad. Definitely people should be compensated though, too often I was expected to put in the extra hours for free and it was one of the big driving forces to going freelance.
The article points out that some staff had already worked weekends and nights. I would have to know more detail there but it is entirely possible that some departments have separate crunch periods for internal deadlines. If that is the case it shows that timescales are being taken seriously which is what avoids the massive 6 months+ crunch periods. -
I’m spent after 7hr working. I don’t know how I’d work more without 80% of that in a hazey daze getting the occasional fifteen mins of super productivity.
-
Yeo crunch can be a factor in a lot of industries. When I ran my own web business I did 36hrs at the end of a project with only a couple hours sleep to get a site live as the marketing was in place. But that wasn’t a regular thing.
As someone outside the gaming industry looking in, it seems to be more prevalent than other industries. -
Another aspect is the project you're working on; it's much easier to put extra in for something you enjoy and believe in, much less so for a jobbing project.
-
The problem is not crunch per se: asking people to work extra hard on projects they love, compensating then for the over time, and time limiting it / not making it a regular thing for every project are all acceptable.
The difference here is the word "mandatory". I've worked long hours, over time, over weekends, over nights. But I've only ever done because I was asked and made the decision to do so, because I believed in what I was doing and the value I could add; was being compensated (either pro ratatouille or en lieu); or both.
Mandatory crunch is wrong every time. -
I also agree with your statement above - that it's different for those with kids / care responsibilities / health issues etc etc and those people should not be discriminated against cos they can't add to a voluntary crunch. Difficult to police but efforts should be made etc
-
I’m thinking reg is out.The Forum Herald™ -
From what I've read, this does appear to be mandatory crunch, but they are getting paid for it (due to Polish employment law)
Did make me think twice about buying it when I saw the news this morning. For about a minute. Wish I had a social conscience like Reg. But I like the gamez too much.It wasn't until I hit my thirties that I realised you could unlock rewards by exploring the map -
I have zero conscience and I've already bought it. -
Pro ratatouille is great -
A couple of arguments for mandatory crunch, although it remains far from ideal.
If mandatory it dictates to staff what is expected of them.
In a huge team that is required for these types of games it means that staff and departments are in to support each other when they need to, potentially minimising time wasted which is key.
It takes the guilt off the staff, guilt led overtime is a very ugly thing. "Well we can't stop you leaving but you will be letting the team down" fuck off.
It is fairer, spreading the load across all staff.
There still needs to be case by case exceptions for people with things like childcare needs of course but unstructured, unplanned crunch is a nightmare. -
Show networks- OOH_HOLD_DAT
- Xbox
- MM Jeremy Wade
- PSN
- SUPERJEDININJA
- Steam
- Roujin5555
Send messageOne thing I don't like about crunch, in any industry, is that a lot of the time, it is the fault of poor project management and planning by those responsible in the business. Either because they don't predict correctly how much work might be involved in something for some reason, or worse, they know it will take more time/resource than available, but they go ahead on a project anyway because they are in a pipeline where there is another project coming in afterwards.
I used to have to do silly hours at the end of projects when I was team leader and QA-ing work before it went out the door on projects and although I agree there was a sense of camaraderie there with everyone, being in the trenches, knee deep in the shit, blah blah blah, all mucking in together to get the job done, we were there 95% of the time because our managers had either underbid work to win it, or over promised on what we would give to clients, or because they had underestimated the amount of time it would take to do a particular project, because they didn't bother consulting any of the people who would actually be doing the work. The managers of course, are typically not subject to the effects of their poor decision making, unless the team failed to deliver even with the crunch period.
All overtime worked should be paid for, full stop. I hate that about current salaried work and it stinks even worse for people who are in roles where crunch is a recurring part of the job.
This is all capitalisms fault. When do the workers get to seize the means of production again?"Let me tell you, when yung Rouj had his Senna and Mansell Scalextric, Frank was the goddamn Professor X of F1." -
Dont get me started on poor organisation.
One of the directors at my old job was a total twat for it. He would come in at 5pm, tell me I needed to get X done before going home where X is a completely undecided, zero thought brief.
Going way off subject here but fuck it.
One of these images was done at 5pm, the other at 3am with 147 iterations inbetween. I never kept the iterations but kept these two.
This was all because the client who was supposed to be head of retail design at The Body Shop had to present the next day and was shit scared of the head of design at Loreal because Loreal has a garbage work atmosphere. I had my director and the client looking over my shoulder the entire time.
-
LivDiv wrote:A couple of arguments for mandatory crunch, although it remains far from ideal. If mandatory it dictates to staff what is expected of them. In a huge team that is required for these types of games it means that staff and departments are in to support each other when they need to, potentially minimising time wasted which is key. It takes the guilt off the staff, guilt led overtime is a very ugly thing. "Well we can't stop you leaving but you will be letting the team down" fuck off. It is fairer, spreading the load across all staff. There still needs to be case by case exceptions for people with things like childcare needs of course but unstructured, unplanned crunch is a nightmare.
I think that's a different point though? It should absolutely be possible to organise and structure voluntary crunch. On the whole I agree with Roujin: in most cases, crunch is a failure of planning, and is absolutely the last resort if there's a vital deadline to hit. Hitting sales windows for video games is a debatable example of that. Aligning with marketing launches to avoid massive wasted spend etc other debatable examples. So if you have to do it, OK, but make it paid, voluntary, and structured towards the goal, rather than chaotic.
Forcing people to work more than their allotted hours is fucking bullshit in every instance. punishing them for not volunteering is fucking bullshit in every instance. -
@Crayon
Yeah that'll be it.
About 100 iterations were changing the greens back and forth because the client didnt understand the concept of light and shadow. -
Yup.Lord_Griff wrote:I can't see a single shadow
We had already had a late night where it was decided shadows shouldn't be involved. Then she said it doesnt make sense that some parts of the green are lighter so I put shadows back in to add logic to the light. She didnt like that so I removed any light variation, we decided on the greens after many iterations despite me taking them off the Pantones she provided. About 2 hours later "There aren't any lights". -
Reminds me of the Beverly Hills cop moment when he tells the builders of a house the owners don't want any corners.
-
Bob wrote:I’m thinking reg is out.
I've never been in on this, it's as fucking Cyberpunk as Terminator 3. Looks like pretty scenery with generics.
But I could have told you this when the interview last year came out. It was another version of a hype interview. -
Cyberpunk as a genre or Cyberpunk the source material? -
As a genre. I'm more of a Richard Morgan / nastier vibe than this has got, and I know that's because it has to appeal massively, but just for my own tastes it seems quite sanitised.
Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Categories
- All Discussions2,715
- Games1,879
- Off topic836