Heh. Round this way it would be.

I liked that Paul Nuttall had to clarify that the ban on burkhas didn't include 'big hats'.

They want schools checking kids' vaginas? Well, shit, I guess one of the parties was gonna go big for the paedo vote.

By Catholic bishops, amirite?

A total attack on Muslims, seasoned with some paranoia over postal votes.
How dare anyone call them a one policy party.

I'll admit that I struggle internally regarding integration and assimilation versus broad multi-culturalism. Fundamentally, multiculturalism appeals - but I do struggle with faith schools and certain teachings (not limited to Islam, I have to state).

That's not me saying I agree with the above - I just...I dunno. I think there's a willingness to look the other way for this stuff because of the wider ideology of wanting a multicultural Britain.

But, do I want circumcision on non-medical grounds to be permissible?
Should it be ok for faith schools to seperate genders?
Is it antisemitic to force Orthodox Jews to teach evolution?
Should faith schools be allowed to force a certain gender to dress more "modestly" then the other?
Am I ok with the sale of alcohol being banned on certain premises due to middle eastern investment?
Even knowing that British law overrides them, should I be comfortable with religious family councils arbitrating in matters of divorce knowing that women might be disadvantaged?
Would saying that a religious practice is against "British values" be, by its very nature, islamophobic or anti-Semitic?

For me, religion is a private matter. But education, sexual equality and the like are not - they're in the public sphere and we have a duty to protect those who might be otherwise disadvantaged.

I absolutely don't want us to be checking for FGM in schools, like the above. I'm just admitting to my own internal dialogue regarding society, law, religion and culture.

Liveinadive wrote:

Faith teaching of all types should be banned in all schools.

But don't you think that proposal would be mocked if it was on that UKIP paper?

And how do you do that without automatically alienating strictly Orthodox Jewish communities?

By making them do their orthodox thingy after school. They would still dominate culturally a school in say Stamford hill, but elsewhere well just learn about your country. Learn about girls. At 18 you can closet yourself all you like. Before that you are the state's charge

I'm all for banning faith schools. I suspect UKIP would never make a proposal which would include banning Christian schools, which is why they would be mocked.

legaldinho wrote:

Problem is the targeting of Muslims only.

Yar, UKIP aren't even trying to hid that shit now.

Thing is, I watched Question Time a while back (2015 or 2016, I forget) where OFSTED were accused of antisemitism by a panellist for asking a Jewish school why they separated genders and enforced unbalanced dress codes.

So, publicly there's deffo a perception of anti-Muslim bias (and indeed that may be true) but there's pushback and accusations of anti-religious bigotry towards anything that might infringe on anything..."anti-British ".

You get how problematic that sounds, right?

Liveinadive wrote:

Childintime wrote:

And how do you do that without automatically alienating strictly Orthodox Jewish communities?

You aren't. They go to school and learn facts. They go home and learn a bunch of mumbo jumbo.

The kids then have the opportunity to decide which version makes sense to them and act accordingly.

If you think that would alienate those communities I think you're being incredibly naive. Good for the kids, aye, but there WILL be comparisons to nazi germany.

Yossarian wrote:

I'm all for banning faith schools. I suspect UKIP would never make a proposal which would include banning Christian schools, which is why they would be mocked.

Indeed. Though that mocking allows people to dodge having to deal with some difficult questions. That's not aimed at you, specifically, I just think that people on "our" side would mock anyone who wanted to ban a religious action in the public sphere on the grounds of "British values" of it came from the daily mail / ukip - yet that's exactly what we're talking about doing here, no?

legaldinho wrote:

It's not even a British thing, the British thing is to segregate, separate, ghettoise, and financially tier the education system. I'm trying to pull the British system in a vaguely rational direction. It's not anti religion, i just think everyone should go to the local school, rich or poor, boy or girl, white or black. Rich people will be incentives to improve standards generally and locally rather than opting out. Neighbourhoods would re-emerge as a communitarian force.

Aye, perhaps.

Sorry, I'm just kinda thinking aloud here. It's hard to find decent discussion of this stuff outside of nutbar territory.

That's the thing with that leaflet, a few of the things on it actually make sense.
But it's also quite clearly an attack on one group of people.

legaldinho wrote:

I think all schooling should be mixed, local, non selective, and free. Outlaw public schools and religious and single sex schools.

I’d vote for all of that and I’m a mite suspicious of anyone who wouldn’t.