Paul the sparky wrote:

As far as comfort blankets go, fucking lol. The world is going to shit, I think we need to break things but I can't be arsed to do owt about it, thank fuck this guy stepped up for me:

I wonder what sad song was playing in his head

What are the two sides of this argument exactly?
- We should do nothing cos there's no point it's all fucked, and point & laugh at anyone bothering to do otherwise
- We should do what we can, be that non-disruptive or disruptive, support others doing likewise, and hope that if enough people do likewise it might lead to something systemic

If so, yeah I'm going B I think

I think the sides are roughly ‘do what you can because it all adds up’ versus ‘personal action isn’t even a drop in the ocean so I don’t know what we can do’.

Not the sides in this here thread, I mean the sides more generally. Out in the world.

DrewMerson wrote:

…the personal anecdotes and responsibilities of one deserve no place in a conversation about collective action. None. Zero. Not even a mention. If you think otherwise you are honestly just too thick to pay any attention to. sorry that's the truth.

Collective actions require individuals to collectively act. Here in the real world, it takes a few individuals to start the ball rolling, and others to join in. It takes individuals to coordinate decisions and actions. If you have your reasons for not being able to participate, what makes you think others don’t have the same? If I were to be asked which members of the forum is best placed to abandon their current lifestyle and start breaking things, I’d honestly have your name at the top of my list. If you can’t manage, what makes you think anyone else can? You can keep your insults to yourself.

So we're going with too thick. A brighter spark might have noticed that i haven't engaged with this topic on a personal level from the start. Even if we set aside the utter irrelevance of how i spend my weekends, my not fetching anecdotes on demand doesn't even mean what you think it means! I would've thought you could join those dots unassisted, but i appear to have overestimated you.

The way I've seen it, they can correct me if I'm wrong:

SG: Personal responsibility will pull us out the shit, governments won't. It's all on us to sacrifice enough to save the planet

Noxy: We need to break stuff but I'm not going to do it and I don't expect anyone else to either. Just Stop Oil have got this

Me: everyone do what is reasonably practicable, but without global enforcement of strict policy regulating everything and everyone from individuals up to OmniGlobalMegaCorps then we're fucked. Just Stop Oil, fucking lol

Be good one day on here to see an actual debate without backhanded insults, slurs and the usual schoolyard bullshit flung about like kids. Keep it up lads, fucking hell. Get heated, sure, but you're all adults.

Dark Soldier wrote:

Be good one day on here to see an actual debate without backhanded insults, slurs and the usual schoolyard bullshit flung about like kids. Keep it up lads, fucking hell. Get heated, sure, but you're all adults.

No need for puns

Paul the sparky wrote:

Paul the sparky wrote:

As far as comfort blankets go, fucking lol. The world is going to shit, I think we need to break things but I can't be arsed to do owt about it, thank fuck this guy stepped up for me:

I wonder what sad song was playing in his head

I'm hearing Walkaway by Cast.

Dark Soldier wrote:

Be good one day on here to see an actual debate without backhanded insults, slurs and the usual schoolyard bullshit flung about like kids. Keep it up lads, fucking hell. Get heated, sure, but you're all adults.

unless it's ZMM, right? 

This is going nowhere so I'll duck out now. Enjoy your check-mate, guys. What a gotcha. You really had me cornered.

SG was advocating personal responsibility and saying people won't do enough out of short-sighted selfishness. It's total bollocks. A lot of people do as much as they can be reasonably expected to do as individuals. They will continue to do so because they've got to do something but they know it's not enough.

It's not that disruption and protest can't work. It's that to do that on a wide enough scale for it to be effective requires mass participation. And people just aren't going to start glueing themselves to the road. The person that said it's the most constructive strategy won't do it himself.

JSO are a right-wing climate deniers wet dream frankly. Very easy to characterise as a bunch of middle class Tarquins fresh out of uni with no idea how the world works. The swing voter Middle England cunts that decide elections hate them. "They get people talking." Yeah they're saying they're arseholes and they made me late for work.

There are effective political solutions (or at least chances for progress) available. There's an election approx 18 months from now that can be prepared for. But it does need someone / some organisation to properly start it up and get it the coverage and reach it needs. The Greens ideally but I don't know what they hell they do with their time.

We should be more like this guy -

Brooks wrote:

I'd still like some good ol' fashioned sabotage.

ZMM wrote:

Be good one day on here to see an actual debate without backhanded insults, slurs and the usual schoolyard bullshit flung about like kids. Keep it up lads, fucking hell. Get heated, sure, but you're all adults.

unless it's ZMM, right?  This is going nowhere so I'll duck out now. Enjoy your check-mate, guys. What a gotcha. You really had me cornered.

Yeah, they bullied me out of the other thread. Hasn't the argument in here caused a lot of energy loss on whatever server this forum is whirring away on? The ironing is delicious.

Oh there you are.  I wanted to apologise, on behalf of the entire forum, for the entirely unjustified bulling you received when you posted a thing you believe.  Your belief is important to us.  Please hold.

Paul the sparky wrote:

monkey wrote:

ZMM wrote:

Vote green, that's the best thing one individual can do

This is the most constructive strategy. But it needs to be properly coordinated. A full-on movement of millions of UK voters that vote as a block exclusively on climate issues. Becoming king makers for the next government. No one votes green because of the electoral system. That can be gotten around with coordination and sheer weight of numbers. There are definitely enough people concerned about this to make this viable. But it does need to be started by someone with slightly more national clout than I've got.

It's that for me. I'd be pissing my vote away and letting the Tories or Lib Dems in, and fuck that for a game of soldiers

I'll never understand this view. If the majority voted green then they would be elected? It's making democracy kind of pointless by thinking that political allegiances are so entrenched. If there is a global climate emergency, I think a lot more people will vote green. But also their policies used to be what Labour were about until a few months ago