Politics of the Free - It’s because Democrats, stupid. - The Bear and Badger

davyK

That whole madness at the end of Trump's term would have fed that. In some ways it's understandable with the rampaging that was going on. The country is fundamentally broken on the issues of guns and race. But on top of that there are an awful lot of people who are afraid of everything. My reading of that is the US economic reliance on war - you have to have someone to be afraid of to keep that going.

GooberTheHat

What's the annual birth rate in the US?

LivDiv

GooberTheHat wrote:

What's the annual birth rate in the US?

I had that thought. There will certainly be annual coming of age applications.

300mil pop, 5mil is 1 in 60 so still seems highish. I cant be bothered to dig deeper than that.

GooberTheHat

I just checked, less than 4mil a year, so yeah, still high.

nick_md

There was a vid on Reddit yesterday, body cam footage from a cop confronting a woman who had a pair of scissors. Cop repeatedly tells her to drop the scissors or he'll shoot and kill her. She comes at him, he shoots and kills her.

The comments section was crazy, not all Americans said this but many said she deserved it, he gave her warning so shot her, scissors are a deadly weapon. Fine, scissors can be a deadly weapon, but this was an older lady, confronting a male cop in full gear. Plenty of folks, non-US and US, saying wth wasn't non lethal force used, but plenty of US folks just 'fuck around find out' and 'she deserved it'. Some said the police's job isn't to risk their lives to save others.

Crazy takes and reading it all drives home yet again not only the gun culture but the mindset of a good portion of folks over there, like turning to lethal force is fine if you give warning.

nick_md

For clarity I can understand the cop panicking and he didn't seem like he was being stereotypical bad-cop, but the mindset of folks that that was normal and the correct thing to expect in a civilised country was shocking.

b0r1s

LivDiv

Sounds like a textbook U.S scenario.
Unfortunately the Police are trained both literally and subconsciously to have a hair trigger.

LivDiv

b0r1s wrote:

Smug from a bloke so preoccupied with proving his celibacy he was basically noncing.

nick_md

Yeah I read about Gandhi's dark side yesterday as it happens, some right dodgy stuff re. women, and I think his niece? Gave himself mad props for not raping her or something.

mistercrayon

Yeah he’s a weirdo. Still fucking good effort getting rid of the brits.

davyK

nick_md wrote:

There was a vid on Reddit yesterday, body cam footage from a cop confronting a woman who had a pair of scissors. Cop repeatedly tells her to drop the scissors or he'll shoot and kill her. She comes at him, he shoots and kills her. The comments section was crazy, not all Americans said this but many said she deserved it, he gave her warning so shot her, scissors are a deadly weapon. Fine, scissors can be a deadly weapon, but this was an older lady, confronting a male cop in full gear. Plenty of folks, non-US and US, saying wth wasn't non lethal force used, but plenty of US folks just 'fuck around find out' and 'she deserved it'. Some said the police's job isn't to risk their lives to save others. Crazy takes and reading it all drives home yet again not only the gun culture but the mindset of a good portion of folks over there, like turning to lethal force is fine if you give warning.

I know a guy who is a cop here and he had a guy with a knife coming at him despite drawn weapon and warning. He put him down and killed him.

Happens here too.

nick_md

Oh aye, can't fault that aspect.

(Gandhi)

acemuzzy

davyK wrote:

nick_md wrote:

There was a vid on Reddit yesterday, body cam footage from a cop confronting a woman who had a pair of scissors. Cop repeatedly tells her to drop the scissors or he'll shoot and kill her. She comes at him, he shoots and kills her. The comments section was crazy, not all Americans said this but many said she deserved it, he gave her warning so shot her, scissors are a deadly weapon. Fine, scissors can be a deadly weapon, but this was an older lady, confronting a male cop in full gear. Plenty of folks, non-US and US, saying wth wasn't non lethal force used, but plenty of US folks just 'fuck around find out' and 'she deserved it'. Some said the police's job isn't to risk their lives to save others. Crazy takes and reading it all drives home yet again not only the gun culture but the mindset of a good portion of folks over there, like turning to lethal force is fine if you give warning.

I know a guy who is a cop here and he had a guy with a knife coming at him despite drawn weapon and warning. He put him down and killed him. Happens here too.

It happens rather less often though, doesn't it?

And in that case, I'd be interested to know what the cop's feelings were after it? Any "I wish I'd shot him non-leathally" vibes, or a clear "he had to die"? I suspect there are pretty big differences on that side of things too (though perhaps more in the public than in the police themselves, I don't know).

GooberTheHat

I don't know about the police, but in the military you are taught that there is no such thing as a "non-lethal" or "less than lethal" shot from a firearm. A shot to the leg for example could easily cut an artery and cause someone to bleed to death in minutes, or the bullet could ricochet off a bone and end up in the chest cavity. Essentially, if you are shooting, you are shooting to kill, so aim for the centre of mass so you don't miss.

Yossarian

Police in America are taught that every situation they encounter is potentially life-threatening and should always be approached as such.

https://harvardlawreview.org/2015/04/law-enforcements-warrior-problem/

GooberTheHat

Politics is literally killing people in America.

nick_md

The vid in question I just thought, rush her and take her down, or use a baton or something. Just seemed crazy escalation. Can't say if I'd follow my own advice in that situation ofc and again I'm not so much blaming the cop as the situation or normalisation of that stuff over there.

I won't link the vid as it's marked nsfw (it's not graphic imo but you do see someone shot twice from a pretty much FPS pov). Scroll down a bit on r/publicfreakout and you'll find it, about 13 posts down on my app atm).

b0r1s

LivDiv wrote:

b0r1s wrote:

Smug from a bloke so preoccupied with proving his celibacy he was basically noncing.

Ooo. Didn’t realise he was in the Ped Thread. Doesn’t devalue the intent of the quote. The idea that west is the bastion of civilisation, especially America, when it is not only built on blood, genocide and slavery but still perpetuates those practices through social-economic policies, and then have the gall to tell the rest of the world how to live (at bomb point) is sickening. Can’t wait for the whole thing to implode if I’m honest.

davyK

acemuzzy wrote:

There was a vid on Reddit yesterday, body cam footage from a cop confronting a woman who had a pair of scissors. Cop repeatedly tells her to drop the scissors or he'll shoot and kill her. She comes at him, he shoots and kills her. The comments section was crazy, not all Americans said this but many said she deserved it, he gave her warning so shot her, scissors are a deadly weapon. Fine, scissors can be a deadly weapon, but this was an older lady, confronting a male cop in full gear. Plenty of folks, non-US and US, saying wth wasn't non lethal force used, but plenty of US folks just 'fuck around find out' and 'she deserved it'. Some said the police's job isn't to risk their lives to save others. Crazy takes and reading it all drives home yet again not only the gun culture but the mindset of a good portion of folks over there, like turning to lethal force is fine if you give warning.

I know a guy who is a cop here and he had a guy with a knife coming at him despite drawn weapon and warning. He put him down and killed him. Happens here too.

It happens rather less often though, doesn't it? And in that case, I'd be interested to know what the cop's feelings were after it? Any "I wish I'd shot him non-leathally" vibes, or a clear "he had to die"? I suspect there are pretty big differences on that side of things too (though perhaps more in the public than in the police themselves, I don't know).

He wasn't in a good place after it. And yeah - it doesn't happen too often - at least post ceasefire. Doesn't make the news though - this incident didn't.

I'm being mischevious. I find the US a scary place - for a black person it must be like being on a knife edge.

DrewMerson

Rev

If you remember that the idea behind the original Police Force in the US was to recapture escaped slaves, it makes things a lot clearer why there seems to be this prevailing ideology of killing people regardless of what level of threat they seem to pose.

I dunno if maybe @drewmerson spoke of this before, but I'm sure they had reaction videos of US cops watching police from other countries take down suspects without executing them. Their genuine amazement that using a non lethal means or even chatting with the 'suspect' defused the situation. It was terrifying to know that in a given situation, a cop is likely to take your life rather than follow the legal route and due process.

GooberTheHat

They believe in the mythology of the wild west and think they are cleaning up the streets. Killing the bad guy is just an inevitable part of the job for some of them.

davyK

Our guys still carry them for obvious reasons. You don't see the automatic rifles as much any more though. I think they have tasers too now. Still have the nightstick.

Yossarian

It’s literally how US cops are trained. See my link further up the page.

nick_md

Rev wrote:

I dunno if maybe @drewmerson spoke of this before, but I'm sure they had reaction videos of US cops watching police from other countries take down suspects without executing them. Their genuine amazement that using a non lethal means or even chatting with the 'suspect' defused the situation. It was terrifying to know that in a given situation, a cop is likely to take your life rather than follow the legal route and due process.

This was brought up in the Reddit thread I mentioned, was Scottish polis I believe aye.

Blue Swirl

hunk

@DrewMerson
The ridiculous amount of gunz in the streets also makes every cop-civ encounter potentially deadly. Yes, there's a sociatal bias against Black and Brown people but the main issue is the stupidly huge circulation of firearms in the US. Because: Wild Wild West, 2nd amendment, you have a right to firearms to defend yourself, it takes a good guy to stop a bad guy with a gun etc etc.

Blue Swirl

hunk wrote:

...it takes a good guy to stop a bad guy with a gun...

I've always loved this "reasoning". Like adding more guns to the mix will make things simpler. "Bad" guys don't go around wearing an easily discernible uniform with BAD GUY written on it. Everyone rocking round with firearms just means more idiots with guns firing off at whatever they can see when shit does hit the fan. I mean, friendly fire is a thing among trained soldiers, never mind Ol' Billy Bob McToothless and his mates in a fucking Walmart.

hunk

It's basically gun lobby talk ingrained into US' society ever since the 'wild wild west'. It is seared into the nation's psyche and it's laws since it's birth; firearms are a civil duty and a right. What better way to protect your business (gunz) and safeguard your home market than by enshrining it into law? It's this perfect marriage of Big Business and government hence the crazy gun issues over there.

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