Politics of the Free - It’s because Democrats, stupid. - The Bear and Badger

RedDave2

I'm an open minded person but can anyone explain the logic in the proposed constitutional carry law that is being proposed here?

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article260894782.html

Surely even the biggest gun nut can see an obvious problem with this?

Gremill

Wookienopants wrote:

Gremill wrote:

It's quieter because the Dems are terrified to let Biden speak in public for more than 30s. If they'd just let him freestyle some amazing Alzheimer's content we'd be posting far more regularly.

"We can’t bust heads like we used to, but we have our ways. One trick is to tell them stories that don’t go anywhere. Like the time I took the fairy to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe so I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on them. Give me five bees for a quarter you’d say. Now where were we, oh ya. The important thing was that I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn’t have white onions because if the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones.”

I had to check that that wasn't an actual Biden quote.

Yossarian

RedDave2 wrote:

I'm an open minded person but can anyone explain the logic in the proposed constitutional carry law that is being proposed here?

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article260894782.html

Surely even the biggest gun nut can see an obvious problem with this?

DeSantis is setting himself up as the new Trump. Anything that stokes culture wars, he’s all for.

GooberTheHat

Gotta own them libs.

RedDave2

Seriously though. If thats what it takes than the US is more fucked than I thought.

What next? Firearm giveaways at GOP conventions?

"you get a gun, and you get a gun, and you get a gun...."

Fucking madness.

Scotswahey

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed".

Now this is what confuses me. Due to Americas need and want for a well regulated militia the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. But surely in order for you to be in that position you should be part of a militia. Or is the idea that all citizens can own guns so that in the event of an uprising, members of the public can form militias?
BUT.. where does any of that mention using guns as self defence or to protect ones property? I get why they want to have militias, it makes sense when you look at their history. But they've warped it so they think they have free reign to do whatever they want with guns and have zero intention of ever joining a militia.

Brooks

The US constitution doc hasn't aged terribly well, no.

Kow

Tis secular fundamentalism.

JonB

Yes, it's horseshit. Something the gun industry has latched onto to make it a freedom issue.

Wookienopants

Gremill wrote:

Wookienopants wrote:

Gremill wrote:

It's quieter because the Dems are terrified to let Biden speak in public for more than 30s. If they'd just let him freestyle some amazing Alzheimer's content we'd be posting far more regularly.

"We can’t bust heads like we used to, but we have our ways. One trick is to tell them stories that don’t go anywhere. Like the time I took the fairy to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe so I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on them. Give me five bees for a quarter you’d say. Now where were we, oh ya. The important thing was that I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn’t have white onions because if the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones.”

I had to check that that wasn't an actual Biden quote.

Tee hee.
It's one of my favourite Abe Simpson quotes

LivDiv

The whole constitution argument is a nonsense anyway.

It's a piece of paper written and signed by human beings just 200 odd years ago. It has been ammended 27 times one of which is the right to arms. One amendment has been removed after being added, prohibition.

There is more than enough history of the thing being changed.

It is a document written by man for man. There is no word of God stopping change, not that religions don't move the goal posts as well.
It isn't the rules of nature or physics.

America has a gun problem because America is addicted to guns.

Wookienopants

LivDiv wrote:

The whole constitution argument is a nonsense anyway.

It's a piece of paper written and signed by human beings just 200 odd years ago. It has been ammended 27 times one of which is the right to arms. One amendment has been removed after being added, prohibition.

There is more than enough history of the thing being changed.

It is a document written by man for man. There is no word of God stopping change, not that religions don't move the goal posts as well.
It isn't the rules of nature or physics.

America has a gun problem because America is addicted to guns.

I was making this point to my father in law just yesterday.
They can and have amended the constitution time and time again when it suits them.
They just won't ever amend it to deal with their ever growing gun problem.

GurtTractor

A constitution is to a nation as what personal identity is to an individual; it should be instrumental to what you want to achieve. Taking it as an immutable prior without good reasoning is usually a bad idea.

RedDave2

They do hold it up as religious dogma, even if the part they are so quick to defend is in itself an amendment.

Wookienopants

But even religion is written by man.
It's a set of rules based on some person, guaranteed to be a man, who has written what they believe was said. With zero evidence.

The religious argument holds even less water than the constitutional argument in my opinion

acemuzzy

Wookienopants wrote:

But even religion is written by man.

Not everyone agrees with that, alas

LivDiv

Wookienopants wrote:

But even religion is written by man.
It's a set of rules based on some person, guaranteed to be a man, who has written what they believe was said. With zero evidence.

The religious argument holds even less water than the constitutional argument in my opinion

As an atheist I agree with you but if I was to put myself in the mind of a true believer then I would be accepting that the words while written by man are delivered by God so come from a higher power than a man.

The mad thing is the U.S constitution was written to get rid of that way of thinking.

Washington would be spinning in his grave if he could see what has happened to the U.S.

Lurch666

Funnily enough some of the same people that would go to war with the government that tries to remove their constitutional right to 'own' a gun are the same people who are happy to let creationism be taught at public schools.

hunk

Sadly, that's how the (American?) Christian Conservative mind works. It's okay if the terrible acts are done by a Christian, as long as he is on our side, the good side. 'For we are pure, our intentions are good'. After all, we're the good guys, right? Right?

It reminds me of how easily they accept Trump's lies, his cruelty and his corruption. And their tendency towards conspiracy theories. The article below sheds a light on the how and why of their thinking.

https://www.vox.com/culture/23033782/frank-peretti-this-present-darkness-piercing-the-darkness-cultural-influence-moral-panic

acemuzzy

That's ya Roe Vs Wade looking like it's overturned in the US then. Abortion illegal nationwide. Well done, guys...

monkey

It’s not quite illegal. It’s that the right to an abortion won’t be protected anymore. So states can criminalise it. And criminalise travel to other states to get one.
If the Twitter hot takes are right, the basis under which they’ve decided that Roe v Wade is unconstitutional could also apply to a whole raft of other non-discrimination laws as well eg segregated schools.

Yossarian

There’s a vague hope here that this move galvanises the democrats before the mid-terms. Fingers crossed.

Diluted Dante

I look forward to the bi-partisan push to pass an abortion law.

Yossarian

That mostly comes from Manchin. If dems can pick up a couple more senate seats, him and Sinema could become irrelevant.

Rev

But it comes down once again to Biden refusing to do what he should be doing in order to strip the GOP and Republican Christofacists of power. He could have removed the fillibuster, he could have started the process of packing the SCOTUS with more on the bench. Instead he's coming across as another demmy wemmy corporation friendly weak boy. I think the Dems will get wrecked at the mid terms. He could of come in and forgave student debt and changed the lives of millions. The GOP are still in charge as far as I can see, regardless of him being president.

Yossarian

He can’t do any of that because Manchin refuses to budge on the filibuster.

Diluted Dante

In fairness his attempts to persuade Manchin to do anything appear to have consisted of capitulating to him at every turn then shrugging.

Minnesänger

People need to vote harder.

Yossarian

Diluted Dante wrote:

In fairness his attempts to persuade Manchin to do anything appear to have consisted of capitulating to him at every turn then shrugging.

We’ve zero idea what goes on behind closed doors. The fact that Biden isn’t publicly excoriating Manchin shouldn’t be taken to mean too much considering the fact that Biden likely hopes that Manchin is still persuadable.

Brooks

Minnesänger wrote:

People need to vote harder.

I voted and I can't get up.

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