Yossarian wrote:

Diluted Dante wrote:

In fairness his attempts to persuade Manchin to do anything appear to have consisted of capitulating to him at every turn then shrugging.

We’ve zero idea what goes on behind closed doors. The fact that Biden isn’t publicly excoriating Manchin shouldn’t be taken to mean too much considering the fact that Biden likely hopes that Manchin is still persuadable.

We know what goes on behind closed doors. They negotiate away the guts of their bill, and then Manchin turns round and says Lol, still not voting for it.

Back room deals are clearly not working with Manchin. If Biden still believes he can be persuaded he's either spectacularly naive or senile.

Diluted Dante wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

Diluted Dante wrote:

In fairness his attempts to persuade Manchin to do anything appear to have consisted of capitulating to him at every turn then shrugging.

We’ve zero idea what goes on behind closed doors. The fact that Biden isn’t publicly excoriating Manchin shouldn’t be taken to mean too much considering the fact that Biden likely hopes that Manchin is still persuadable.

We know what goes on behind closed doors. They negotiate away the guts of their bill, and then Manchin turns round and says Lol, still not voting for it.

Back room deals are clearly not working with Manchin. If Biden still believes he can be persuaded he's either spectacularly naive or senile.

So what are Biden’s options exactly? Criticising Manchin publicly isn’t likely to persuade him either, if anything it’s more likely to make him dig his heels in.

Fuck the guy up, that's your option. Pressure him in public and private ways, far harder than Biden has done so far. Lay everything at his door. Dox the motherfucker's family. Burn the ground he walks on, so that digging his heels in blisters the skin off them

Remove his membership of Democratic Party. Bribe him with one million dollars. Kidnap his kids.

You know that tone isn’t helping anyone, Funk.

There's not a lot that can be done if Manchin won't respond to whatever the usual range of bribes and threats are. Biden's got a tiny advantage in the Senate and getting rid of Manchin turns that into a minority (and I'm not really sure what his options are for getting rid anyway). And he still won't be able to pass his spending bill.

It’s not helping, no. But I did like this phrase:

Funkstain wrote:

Burn the ground he walks on, so that digging his heels in blisters the skin off them.

You know what also isn't helping anyone?

Joe Manchin.

That'll solve it.
Meanwhile outside of the sixth form art room.

LivDiv wrote:

That'll solve it.
Meanwhile outside of the sixth form art room.

Good point.

Let’s vote. Then argue (with the appropriate tone) and protest (but not too aggressively) and pressure politicians (without cancelling them) and ignore that the entire system is now stacked against us and in the favour of special interest.

The longer we stay on the sidelines, the more rights are lost - the ruling classes have proven themselves incapable of balance between the will of the people and their own interests / interests of their donors.

It’s not our job to wait for them to learn or come to the table. They’ve had many, many chances. No compromise. Hang them.

Was anything worth fighting for ever just given?

Suffering is shit, but it does at least birth some ambitious solutions

Minnesänger wrote:

LivDiv wrote:

That'll solve it. Meanwhile outside of the sixth form art room.

Good point. Let’s vote. Then argue (with the appraise tone) and protest (but not too aggressively) and pressure politicians (without cancelling them) and ignore that the entire system is now stacked against us and in the favour of special interest. The longer we stay on the sidelines, the more rights are lost - the ruling classes have proven themselves incapable of balance between the will of the people and their own interests / interests of their donors. It’s not our job to wait for them to learn or come to the table. They’ve had many, many chances. No compromise. Hang them.

Or we could sit on a videogames forum saying someone should kidnap someone's kids but not me someone else should do it yeah.

LivDiv wrote:

Minnesänger wrote:

LivDiv wrote:

That'll solve it. Meanwhile outside of the sixth form art room.

Good point. Let’s vote. Then argue (with the appraise tone) and protest (but not too aggressively) and pressure politicians (without cancelling them) and ignore that the entire system is now stacked against us and in the favour of special interest. The longer we stay on the sidelines, the more rights are lost - the ruling classes have proven themselves incapable of balance between the will of the people and their own interests / interests of their donors. It’s not our job to wait for them to learn or come to the table. They’ve had many, many chances. No compromise. Hang them.

Or we could sit on a videogames forum saying someone should kidnap someone's kids but not me someone else should do it yeah.

Fair. I’m a million wiles away. How has protesting and placating worked for you?

It doesn't involve mutilation the death sentence or kidnapping minors.

If I have to bin off basic values it isn't worth it. A society that endorses those things is worse than what we have now.

Super excited. I don’t wanna execute anyone either, truth be told.