Halo, is it me you're looking for? - The Bear and Badger

Yossarian

IGN with the first hands-on campaign preview.

https://www.ign.com/articles/halo-infinite-campaign-preview-ign-first

Yossarian

Gameinformer up too:

https://www.gameinformer.com/2021/11/11/off-the-golden-path-progression-and-exploration-in-halo-infinite

stonechalice

Hmm. Not sure about this earning valor business.

Yossarian

Sounds like it can be entirely ignored if you want.

stonechalice

Hope so. I can imagine farming it to get a tank to get through a tough bit and I'm not sure how I feel about that. Same with armour upgrades etc.

tigersgogrrr

Rumours that the MP will shadow drop on Monday.

Omg.

Knight

tigersgogrrr wrote:

Rumours that the MP will shadow drop on Monday.

Omg.

It’s a really good idea. As are the live action promos they’re doing on Twitter. Shame their game designers aren’t on a par with their marketing team.

Yossarian

You seem to be practically alone in that assessment of the designers based on the feedback so far.

Knight

Yossarian wrote:

You seem to be practically alone in that assessment of the designers based on the feedback so far.

Oh there’s plenty of people who weren’t impressed by the flight. And plenty of others who enjoyed it because it was new and the aesthetic was decent but will start seeing the many issues after a bit more play time.

This is a company that made Halo 4, which was awful and Halo 5, which while a basically good game had such complicated movement that it alienated most people and wasn’t really what Halo is meant to be. They’re incapable, judging by 5 and Infinite, of making an aiming system that isn’t a mess. That is a default requirement of an FPS. They INCREASED aim assist on the BR, probably the easiest to use utility precision weapon in Halo’s history, after the flight. They brought bloom back?! They moved most of the important HUD items to the bottom right for no reason. It was effectively impossible to get mutlikills with one mag/ kill times on some guns was so high (a 1.6 second BR kill time?) so they had to up the timing on multi kill medals to make them possible. They turned red reticle off for PC players because of cheating?!

They’ve basically no idea what they’re doing.

nick_md

They'll make these decisions based on telemetry and analysing player actions, then making an informed decision based on the data they have. They won't just be spinning a wheel and yoloing it.

Diluted Dante

Based on Halo 4 I'm not quite sure about that Nick.

Knight

nick_md wrote:

They'll make these decisions based on telemetry and analysing player actions, then making an informed decision based on the data they have. They won't just be spinning a wheel and yoloing it.

Well to start with they’ll have to have some sort of design philosophy for what sort of arena multiplayer they want. And then they’ll need to be capable of implementing that philosophy. And then they’ll need to understand the data they get properly and make decisions accordingly. I’m sure they’re not spinning a wheel but that doesn’t mean they know what they’re doing. And almost nothing about 343’s track record with Halo should give us any confidence that they know what they’re doing. The game was delayed a year and it still won’t have forge at release…

The aiming issues are widely acknowledged by the community and acknowledged by 343. People were complaining for years with 5’s aiming too. And yet their solution is to change aim assist? That demonstrates a radical misunderstanding of the issue. Or an inability to fix is so they need to band aid a solution.

Oh and while data might tell you bloom on precision weapons is fine it tells you nothing about the individual experiences of fights and how frustrating it is to lose to a coin flip. The data shows it reverting to the mean over time but the actual experience is not enjoyable.

Yossarian

People have played this game, they’ve experienced it for themselves, the reaction has been overwhelmingly positive, these aiming issues have been barely a footnote in what I’ve been reading. Your position seems to be overly negative to me, Knight.

Diluted Dante wrote:

Based on Halo 4 I'm not quite sure about that Nick.

All of the changes that they made to Halo 4 MP post release were for the good.

nick_md

I stand corrected, clearly we have some experts here who really like halo.

(I'm being my usual ***** self so apologies and that, I haven't played a halo since... Reach maybe? I just find the 'you don't know what you're doing' stance does a disservice to the people actually on the front lines of games development)

Knight

Sure Yoss but ‘people enjoyed it’ doesn’t substantially engage with any of my points and those who’ve been negative about Halo’s direction since 3 have been proven correct time after time. That is, even as the loudest internet voices (Reddit, waypoint etc) have defended decisions the population has continued to decline and most of the worst changes have needed to be rowed back, even if they’ve happened far too late. So for example we finally have a sprint mechanic that is basically useless. Probably still better if it weren’t there at all but the people’s who’s opinions I most respect on Halo have been complaining about sprint since Reach.

The population will be very high initially owing to F2P but let’s see what happens over a few weeks. Certainly the PC crowd will disappear when it becomes evident that fighting with precision weapons is mostly discouraged.

nick_md

Do you think the decline in halo player population is wholly linked to these design decisions?

FranticPea

nick_md wrote:

I stand corrected, clearly we have some experts here who really like halo.

(I'm being my usual ***** self so apologies and that, I haven't played a halo since... Reach maybe? I just find the 'you don't know what you're doing' stance does a disservice to the people actually on the front lines of games development)

There's no experts on here nick, just blokes with opinions.

Diluted Dante

Don't worry, 343 devs aren't people here's a recent dev diary:

Yossarian

Knight wrote:

Sure Yoss but ‘people enjoyed it’ doesn’t substantially engage with any of my points and those who’ve been negative about Halo’s direction since 3 have been proven correct time after time. That is, even as the loudest internet voices (Reddit, waypoint etc) have defended decisions the population has continued to decline and most of the worst changes have needed to be rowed back, even if they’ve happened far too late. So for example we finally have a sprint mechanic that is basically useless. Probably still better if it weren’t there at all but the people’s who’s opinions I most respect on Halo have been complaining about sprint since Reach.

The population will be very high initially owing to F2P but let’s see what happens over a few weeks. Certainly the PC crowd will disappear when it becomes evident that fighting with precision weapons is mostly discouraged.

Cool, thanks. Feel free to come back with an “I told you so” in a few months’ time.

hunk

Urgh, I still haven't finished H4. It's definitely 'awful' compared to Bungie's own efforts.
No doubt 343 is capable of fucking up Bungie's carefully crafted/balanced gameplay loop. Quietly hopeful for infinite tho as they (343) do seem to listen to player feedback.

If 343 delivers they might have a winner on their hands revitalising the Halo ip for next gen.

stonechalice

Blooming hell

hunk

Aye, bad idea in twitch shooters.

Wookienopants

But will it be fun?
Yep, probably will

tigersgogrrr

How much of the flights did you play, Knight? This felt like the closest thing to 3 since.

stonechalice

Knight just wants to hate the Halo and that's just fine.

Knight

I love Halo, that’s partly why I’m so negative. I really love it but wish the devs understood what makes it so brilliant better than they do. I played a lot of H5 and have been playing a lot of MCC recently.

Tiger on the flight, I played a bit. And to be fair it was partly the lack of precision weapon starts which made it hard for me to enjoy much (I’ve always wanted ‘BR starts’ as you know). That said though, it was just so hard to get a kill with anything other than an AR or a BR (if they were in the open because it took forever to kill someone even though it was hard to miss with). There was definitely lots of stuff to like about it but the weapon balancing was MILES off, the aiming was v. annoying and the maps were bad. Plus clamber continues to be a straight up bad mechanic for Halo.

Knight

Yossarian wrote:

Knight wrote:

Sure Yoss but ‘people enjoyed it’ doesn’t substantially engage with any of my points and those who’ve been negative about Halo’s direction since 3 have been proven correct time after time. That is, even as the loudest internet voices (Reddit, waypoint etc) have defended decisions the population has continued to decline and most of the worst changes have needed to be rowed back, even if they’ve happened far too late. So for example we finally have a sprint mechanic that is basically useless. Probably still better if it weren’t there at all but the people’s who’s opinions I most respect on Halo have been complaining about sprint since Reach.

The population will be very high initially owing to F2P but let’s see what happens over a few weeks. Certainly the PC crowd will disappear when it becomes evident that fighting with precision weapons is mostly discouraged.

Cool, thanks. Feel free to come back with an “I told you so” in a few months’ time.

I really hope I’m wrong. I’d love 343 to listen to feedback, to improve the game and for the player base to stay big. I’d love a flourishing competitive scene, Halo esports can be awesome to watch.

Speedhaak

I would agree with 4 and 5 were particularly bad entries into the series but I am willing to give Infinite a chance, especially F2P MP which looks set to drop tomorrow (very interested to try this on PC)

Moot_Geeza

Is this still just a rumour? I've got the week off, might download and git gud.

Speedhaak

Yeah pretty much but consensus is it's more than likely at this stage.

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